elya gave me a nice pice of advice last night - if we are at work, we are there for a purpose, that purpose is to get a paycheck at the end of the week.so, that's what we are there for, NOTHING else, including NOT looking at what's walking around in the hallways. this reminded me of something i once asked a lubavitch emissary.i asked him 'how is it that lubavitchers dont get influenced by their surroundings - after all, they go to some of the most unholiest places on earth.but there they are, walking around as if they were in crown heights.well, he said to me - we know what we're here for - and we're not here for anything else, that's why we dont get influenced by the tomay environment.what do you think? jack

Jack, You are 100% right that it is important to not lose focus of why you are at work, or why we are put in this earth in the first place. for that matter.

However, (and I don't mean this with any disrespect Chas V'Shalom to any Chabad emmisaries, who are doing holy work) people must remember the words of chazal: Al ta'amin B'Atzmecha Ad Yom Moscha, Do not believe in yourself until the day you die"

Some people simply do not belong in "unholy places" no matter how holytheir purpose is. Sometimes, the only way is to pick yourself up and get out of the places that cause you to slip and fall.

Chazak V'Ematz!

I would agree that for people who struggle/d with these type of addictions should not do Shlichus in these type of places, no matter how holy and worthy this job is. Everyone needs to know themselves.

Chaza"l tell the story of Chanina and Oshia (I think) that were unmarried and used to fix the shoes of zonos in the market place and even fit the shoes on their feet, and yet never lifted their eyes to look at them. And Chaza"l say that on such people Hakadosh Baruch Hu bears witness and praises them.

But Elya's point is well taken. When we remember what we are here for, whether at work, or even in the world. Why are we here on Earth? We can remain focused and keep our eyes clean.

Jack, I am so impressed that you are striving to achieve control of your eyes as well. This guy Jack, he just never gives up and never stops growing. It's truly amazing!

Guard,

I am with you 1000% regarding Jack. He is amazing! Amazing! Amazing! A true Eved Hashem!

I was not disagreeing with Elya's larger point, as he is right about keeping focus.

Chazak V'Ematz!

dear mevakesh, you know how i feel about you, right? but i cant take that praise! jack

You can't????  The word "CAN'T" isn't part of your  vernacular anymore Jack, remember?

You CAN do anything you set your mind to do! (Including accepting some well deserved compliments)

Chazak V'Ematz!

hello everybody. first let me tell you that i love you all and i am with you in spirit even though i dont know you, and you may be thousands of miles away from me, but our neshamos are all connected, we are all part of one body, Hashem's nation.and just as i love my foot and my hand, they are separate limbs of the same body, and i must take care of them.
secondly, if you speak to elya he will tell you that there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds more, of NON-JEWS attending SLA group meetings, because they realize that this addiction can ruin their lives. in fact, any addiction can ruin your life, whether alcohol, drugs or our inyan.and this is their incentive.but we, who want to follow Hashem's Torah, and understand that Hashem wants the best for us in this world as well as the next world, we have an added incentive to seek treatment for this disease.yes, hashem will look at us and judge us favorably, and recognize we have a disease.but why rely on that? it's better if we get over it, and not have to rely on hashem's mercy.believe me, we will have to rely on His mercy anyway.but why not try to reduce that reliance, and actually have merits that we dont need Hashem's mercy for? yes, moshe relied on Hashem's mercy, not on his deeds, but he still had plenty of merits!
so, we of hashem's nation have 2 incentives to seek treatment, which are really one - because the intention of Hashem was that we should live good lives,meaningful lives, therefore it is worth our while to seek treatment, no matter what form that treatment takes.do you want to be found out and ruin your family? some of us were lucky and were never caught.but some of us were caught and have not-so-lucky endings.which camp do you want to find yourself in? you MUST receive treastment for this! your life and the life of your family depend on it! warmest wishes, jack

one more thing (i think) these incentives that i mentioned are not enough to make us stop the addiction.in fact there ARE no incentives to make us stop the addiction, that's why it's an addiction - you can't stop. BUT, they are (or should be) incentives to seek help and treatment for the addiction, hopefully.and group support is THE key, the ikar to getting help - just read Dr. Twerski, i am not making this up on my own, i am getting this from THE expert on this. jack

guten chodesh everyone.meshenichnas adar, marbin besimcha.this is more important for us than anyone else.
as i approach 6 clean months, people ask me how i did it - how was i able to accomplish this monumental task without the 12 steps?
here are my answers.
1.without group support, fuggedaboutit.
2.one day at a time.
3.i endured brutal torture for about the first 70 days.it felt like a furnace.but i had friends, all you fine people out there cheered me on.i cannot describe to you how difficult a battle it was.
although they're all important, number 3 is the most important.you gotta go through the pain, and it is pain.if you dont want to endure the pain, or you are afraid of it, i dont want to say you wont succeed, because maybe there is someone out there who can do without this, who knows? i only speak for myself.

jack wrote on 20 Feb 2009 16:37:


This is an interesting point. Very interesting. Since most people cannot or will not avoid all of these situations realistically speaking, it would be great to understand their secret and how they do it.

wow! what activity on this forum! everybody is being truthful about themselves.as you know, this is the first step.the problem is, how to go on to the next step, which is to start acting on that wonderful knowledge.
addicts are manipulators - they can manipulate anyone, themselves, EVEN therapists, into believing that they cant move on.so we have to stop manipulating and start moving! what i'm trying to do is gently nudge the chevra.believe me, i know how hard it is.so allow yourself to be pushed from behind and pulled from the front - that's what this forum is for - pushing and pulling.i know you cant do it on your own.let the people on this forum help you, and surrender your addiction.

MORE GOOD ADVICE

do NOT concentrate on the 90 day number.focus on ONE dAY at a time. focusing on a big number like 90 may be too hard for us.so instead, think about the number 1 (one). then tomorrow, also think about the number one, and the next day.until you reach 90.at that point, things will be easier.look at it this way: let's say you're learning a big mesechta like bava basra, are you going to look to see how much more you have to finish? it can be overwhelming! instead, you just look at the next daf, or the next line if need be, or the next word.one small unit at a time, the size of the unit depending on the person.

now that i slipped, i know what a slip is.here it is: you do NOT go back to the ways of addiction, that is out of the question. but to make a mistake, is a different matter entirely. as of today, i slipped once in 7 months. i think that's pretty good! those 6 and a half months are now part of my personality - i'm a changed man.not totally yet, but definitely changed.and i wont lose sight of the dangers of going back there, ch'v. it's like coming out of a dark dangerous cave out into the light.would you want to go back into that cave again?

Jack, we can learn as much from you from after the slip as we did from the 6.5 month clean streak!

now that i am past the slip, i can talk about it.first of all, rebbe umori, rabbeinu guard, it was 6 and a half months, not 6!
here's what happened: since i am starting therapy, i had to go into the dark past of my life in order to let her know my story.well, doing this put me into a state of depression.depression leads to sin.it took a few days for the depression to pass, maybe a week.but now that it's passed,i'm back on my wagon.
lesson: dont let slips put you back! dont let slips depress you! recognize that it might take a while to get back up, but please, get back up!! and realize that depression makes us sin.real tzadikim, unlike me, can control their emotions like a light switch.there was once a great rabbi (at least according to some people and i wont mention the name - you never know who's listening) whose wife passed away before purim.when purim came, and he was obligated to be b'simcha, he was.i wish i was at that level - maybe some day.it's definitely something to shoot for.