Woohee! I didn't grasp your post about the facetiousness thing , what and who are you referring to, chaver? Thx

By Derech Eretz i mean:

Chaza"l say the world's 6000 years are split in three sets of 2000. Hashem gave the world (about) 2000 years they call 'Derech Eretz', and then gave it the Torah. And that is what 'Derech Eretz kodmah laTorah' literally means. But the concept there is also literal for the olam kotton: He gave the world 2000 years to try and mature up, then gave it a job to do - and in the same way we are given a chance to start growing up a bit before becoming bar mitzvahs. The first years are for Derech Eretz, then comes Torah.

In recovery, I was blind to all this until after being sober for a few years. I could then see that the main problem I actually had was not desiring, but lying and faking! I discovered why alcoholics and sexaholics were getting and staying sober by being honest, rather than by being 'strong'.

And I learned that honesty is a thing that takes us time to learn. Months, at least. We spent years faking out everyone including ourselves and twisting our relationships, our yiddishkeit and Torah and Teshuvah all into gasoline for our addiction. They fed it, instead of stopping it.

When I talk about derech Eretz, I refer to Sanity. It is what the 2nd step of the program refers to. It does not say "We came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sobriety." Rather, it says "...could restore us to sanity."

Sanity is defined by the dictionary "sound thinking and a sound approach to living/reality" - not perfection. Even goyim and even resho'im can have sanity. Anyone can. Even yidden who sin with zera levatola sometimes, can be completely sane. People sin. That's what Teshuvah is for, not recovery.

For the sexually addicted man or woman, insanity is a huge irritant. It is probably not the reason they are addicted to it - the program does not concern itself with searching for the cause of our addiction. It searches for acceptance of it and acceptance of a new way of living, one day at a time with G-d. Even addicts with lots of insanity can get sober. But they will not be able to stay sober. That is why there are steps 4-10.

Boy, I am using a lot of italics and bolds here, sorry...must be tired.

Happy New Year!! Yippee.

Thanks for your clarification. If you look at steps 4-10-they all depend on what the addict is willing to do to aid in his recovery and steps necessary to stay sober (i.e. setting boundaries, exercise, etc)

I never thought of it in that way, thank you! It's true!

It's been a while but I'm finally back in this thread. Dov you've given me a lot to think about...

Welcome back! I'm so glad you here, because we all need each other and because

I know that was dumb, but I couldn't resist

don't worry, we all enjoy a little humor every now and then

BTW, Dov may likely not see your comment. Maybe message him direct or send him an email. wequithiding@gmail.com

Hatzlacha!