All I can say is we never know just what shape or form Hashem will send his help to us in.All I kow is that if we call out to Hashem in truth he answers us in truth.

Like guard already said, make sure you go with only ONE agenda: to rid yourself of your addiction (or habit if you like that word better). Even if you disagree with parts of their system, if you go in with an open mind you will come out with an open heart. Go in with a closed mind and you will end up with a broken heart.

guardureyes wrote on 28 Jan 2009 21:31:


Well, if I was actually trying them out close up then it would certainly be a bombshell. As I explained on the other thread I am looking at it from a very utilitarian perspective. Just as some don't join in with whatever prayer some of these groups have, I don't have to identify or believe in everything they do to gain something.

this is one of the best threads i've read on this site.
I just have to bump it up to the top

You know that boruch, who originally started this thread against the 12-steps, is today the moderator of the back to basics 12-Step phone conference on GYE - twice a week, and one of the strongest advocators for the 12-Steps I have ever met!  :D

Thank you Uri for bringing this thread on top. I read this read from begining to end. I never would seen it otherwise.

And the name Baruch was familiar. Thank you Reb Guard for putting 1 and 1 together. The power of the 12 steps, WoW.

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the.guard wrote on 18 Oct 2009 13:30:

Someone have a duster?
It's time to get the cobwebs off this thread

Markz wrote on 16 May 2017 13:18:

That really was a great thread. The ultimate act of our free will is admitting that we are completely powerless over ourselves.

Tons of chochmah here on both sides of the aisle.