Just trying to figure out this whole mess, married for 8 years.  Been addicted to m and p since age of about 22, when internet started.  wasn't religious, got married at 25, divorced at 28 (probably due to addiction issues), became observant at 29, quite frum and married by 30 to great frum bales tschuva.  was clean until stress in marriage after 1.5 years, slipped back into addiction.  6 months into it, wife saw the history links on my google search, and was devistated.  I have never lived this down.  I know she does not trust me for a second, even though i have been almost 100% clean (BH) except for 3-4 slips over the 5 years.  even though every computer I have is monitored with covenanteyes by my rav, when i am traveling for business i have struggles.  i want to repair what i have done to her, but it is almost 5 years now.  our relationship has  ups and downs, in the last year, for whatever reason, siyata d shmaya, i began to discover the abilty to have true intimacy with her, and this has helped. i slipped recently, feel terrible about self.  dont think i can EVER tell her.  anyway, i love her very much, but want to try try try to get to a place where she will trust me or love me or forgive me.  i know i am supposed to be punished for what i have done, and know i am an addict.  any ideas?

See the following thread for a discussion about shemiras einayim when traveling:
www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=2665.0
Any contribution would be appreciated.

I am not sure about your marraige situation. Most people here have found that when they have made sincere efforts to improve, have been largely successful, and have been open with their wive's, then their marraiges have improved immensly. You may need to flesh out some more detais to the guidance you are seeking.

Dear ezrasyid,

Your Truthfulness is an inspiration to us all... Now for the official welcome...
 
Welcome to our community! Once you've arrived, there's no turning back. Everyone here will just grab a hold of you and pull you up, up, up!

Scientific studies have shown that it takes 90 days to change a neural thought pattern that was ingrained in the brain through addictive behaviors. Did you join the 90 day chart on-line? Sign up over here.

Make sure to install a strong filter. It will be almost impossible to break free of this while having all the garbage within a mouse click away. See this page for one good filter option, along with instructions on how to install it best – and give away the password to our "filter Gabai"… See this page for another 20 (or so) filter ideas and information…

We get cries for help every day, by e-mail and on the forum. Tzuras Rabim Chatzi Nechama    And that is why we created the GYE handbooks (links below). If you read them well, from beginning to end, slowly, and try to implement what you read, you will find the answers within them to enable you to completely turn your life around. You're worth it.

Also, join the daily Chizuk e-mail lists to get fresh chizuk every day, and post away on this forum. You will get tons of daily Chizuk and support. This disease can't be beat alone. It works best when you get out of isolation!

GuardYourEyes also offers various free anonymous phone conferences, where you can join a group of other frum Yidden, along with an experienced sponsor. See this page for four different options. Our conferences are taking place daily, throughout the week… This would be a tremendous step in the right direction for you and help you learn freedom from this addiction. Not only will you learn the secret of the 12-Steps – which is known to be the world's most powerful program for beating addiction having helped millions world wide, but joining the group will be another way of GETTING OUT OF ISOLATION and connecting with others who are going through what you are.

Let me tell you a little about the two GuardYourEyes handbooks. They lay down the cornerstone and foundation of our work, and they make our network much more effective and helpful for people.

You see, until now, people would often get "lost" when coming to our website, not knowing what tips and techniques to try. For example, a beginner wouldn't jump straight into therapy or 12-Step groups, while on the other hand, someone whose addiction was more advanced wouldn't be helped by the standard tips of "making fences" putting in "filters" etc… So it was essential to develop a handbook which details all the techniques and tools to dealing with this addiction in progressive order. Now with these handbooks, anyone can read through and see what steps they've tried already, and if those steps haven't worked, they can continue on through the handbook where the steps become progressively more powerful and "addiction-oriented".

And the second handbook, called the "Attitude" handbook, can also help anyone, no matter what level of addiction they may have. Often people write in to us saying that had they only known the proper outlook & attitude that we try and share on the GuardYourEyes network when they were younger, they would have never fallen into an addiction in the first place! So we hope that through this handbook, many addictions will be prevented.

The handbooks are PDF files, set up as eBooks, and they have bookmarks and hyper-links in the Index, to make them easy to navigate.

Note: You might want to print them out to read away from the computer. Keep in mind though, that if you do this, you won't be able to click on the many web links in the articles. But you can always come back to them later. The truth is, it's anyway good to go through the whole handbook once without clicking on links, just to get an overview of all the tools available. Once you did that, you can start again from tool #1 and read each tool through more carefully, click the links and study each technique and assess whether you have tried it fully yet or not…

Right click on the links below and select "Save Link/Target As" to download the handbooks to your computer.

1) The GuardYourEyes Handbook

This Handbook details 18 suggested tools and techniques, in progressive order, beginning with the most basic and fundamental approaches to dealing with this addiction, and continuing down through increasingly earnest and powerful methods. For the first time, we can gauge our level of addiction and find the appropriate tools for our particular situation. And no matter what level our addiction may have advanced to, we will be able to find the right tools to break free in this handbook!

2) The GuardYourEyes Attitude

The Attitude Handbook details 30 basic principles to help us maintain the proper attitude and perspective on this struggle. Here are some examples: Understanding what we are up against, what it is that Hashem wants from us, how we can use this struggle for tremendous growth, how we can deal with bad thoughts, discovering how to redirect the power of our souls, understanding that every little bit counts, learning how to bounce back up after a fall, and so on and so forth…

May Hashem be with you!

Dear "ezrasyid",

Before launching into anything that I believe you may find helpful and risk being completely misunderstood, there are a few easy-to-answer questions I really want to ask you.

1- Why do you call your habit of using schmutz and masturbating an addiction, at all?

2- How could you have gone back to using it even though your wife clearly loves you and cares for you and things were getting better?

(and here is a personal one - please ignore it if it drives you crazy) :

3- You sound like you have been through a lot of real, terrible pain. You sound pretty mature. You sound desperate to get better, and it seems plain that you desire, above all, to learn how to live honestly with your sweet self and with your sweet wife. But how to shake the double-life and sneaking if you feel the desire so desperately? This sounds to me like what you are looking to answer here.

Then why the username? Why not trash it for the truth: the real first name that you go by, that represents the real you. No one will know who you are here (unless you go by "shmeelaroo", or something like that....)

OK, so maybe I scared you away a bit. Sorry. What you wrote sounds so much like some of my own story that it is hard to resist trying to go for the bulls-eye. And do you really have anything to lose (that you will not eventually lose without any outside help) by answering back?

With love and empathy,

Dov

hi e.yid,

when I stop laughing from Dov's post, I'll also answer you...

(@Dov you are too funny! I just which you would stop posting my real name!! )

Ok - e.yid..

first of all welcome!
second - you and your wife have to realize that this is a life time plan...just like the cripple who has lost his legs (chas v'shalom) !

- you deal with it. you learn to live with it... and you do everything you can to avoid getting into the battle in the first place!

realize that an addiction (any addiction - not just this one) is a progressive degeneration of ones mind..it only gets worse...and just like a prisoner cannot free themself, so to when one is dealing with an addiction. One can only cry ones heart out to Hashem...and beg for mercy, and hope someone comes along who will be willing to give you a hand up out of this mucky deep dark hole!

Since it sounds like you have a good relationship with your wife, and she knows already, any way -
why not write her a letter:

My Dear, sweet wife -

Looking back over the pain I've caused you over the past years with my internet addiction, it pains me so much to kow how much I hurt you... if you are still angry, I understand...but, I hope we can work through it together.

I wanted to let you know, I recently found a site to help religious men deal with this issue - GYE.
There are a lot of support groups, etc.

I want you to know how much I care about you, and love you...and how much I also want this issue to be resolved...but the more I learn the more I realize that I can do is continue to work on myself.

I am looking forward to a meaningful relationship with you.


blah blah blah

you get the point.. write  a letter share your feelings.. ok, so you'll cry...your wife will cry... you'll hug...and both move forward.  And along the way, you'll learn to share your feelings, and learn how to CRY out from the bottom of your heart to Hashem, too

(btw - the basic idea is to turn HARM into something meaningful... if you can FEEL it, you can HEAL it ! )

dov.in.israel

- aka. shmeel-igaroo

dov wrote on 27 Feb 2011 22:27:


Yeah! Like, who cares about the the issues at hand. Sure their pressing, but I mean - really? A pseudonym? In 2011? Do you seriously still have shame left in you? Personal pride and self esteem are soooo 2010!

In the future, all post should include your wedding pictures (the COMPLETE album, no singles please), a copy of your drivers license/passport, your social security number, w2's for the last 5 years and copies of your bank statements. Health records, elementary, high scholl and university transcripts, your criminal history and turn by turn directions to your house. Please also post your CC number to cover the cost of travel.

Its not like we can deduct your "essence" form you pseudonym. I mean "ezrasyid" can in no posible way allude to someone that is trying to be holy by being makpid on T'vilas Ezra.

Dear "o",

Your sarcasm is better used elsewhere, I think. I was not implying that this yid needs to ignore anything. I was merely trying to lay some groundwork that I and other addicts I know who are getting better have found to be necessary in order to make real progress.

This person describes a situation similar to my own. Is that your situation? Have you compulsively used porn, masturbated, or anything else he is sharing here? It has affected his marriage relationships deeply and led to a divorce already - can you relate to that?

This is not an argument - just sincere questions trying to establish a basis in your own experience for anything you are writing about. Feel free to answer them directly, there is no shame needed here if you really want to help.

If you have a bone to pick with me personally, then why not take it to the PMs and we can correspond that way?

Dear ezrasyid,

I apologize if anything I posted to you sounded negative in any way. The only thing I am concerned with here is reaching out a helping hand by sharing with you what is vital to me in my own recovery today. I relate to much of what you write, as I posted above, and listed a few things that were basics I hoped you would give consideration to so I could move on and share more practical stuff with you that may help you address your life.

It is clear to me that you are not asking a religious question over here, but are hoping beyond hope to make the best out of your life. Given your track record, and your recent struggles I know that it can seem hopeless. But it is not.

If you wish to answer what I asked you above, I believe it will only help you more easily move on from there be"H in a good direction.

Hatzlocha to you and yours and do not lose hope.

Sincerely,

Dov 

lol- o and dov duking it out on the PM's

EYid- I dont get it: on the one hand you say ur wife found out abt ur p addict. thru the goofgle search, but then you say you dont want to tell her. doesnt she already know?

unless you mean the slip u just had. well if she already u knew you slipped multiple times in the past, whats wrong with one slip recently?

sounds like u have done quite well for urself though. keep it up

Dov doesn't need my support, but it I don't think it could hurt. Or can it?  ???
Eyid,
I can't relate to your particular situation, and so to give you my advice would be really presumptuous of me. However I would like to share with you some of my experience in order to help you. Take it as you wish.

When joining GYE I had a lot of preconceived notions about this addiction. I felt I understood myself very well, and had a pulse on what I needed to do. While I was right in general, I was made aware of a tremendous amount of things about myself that I did not know!! Had no idea!! And that has helped me the most. I needed to get in touch with my true reality in order to attempt to fix myself. Before I was able to fix myself or be honest with my wife, I had to first be honest with myself.

How did I learn what my real problem was? By being asked tough questions, and being forced to deal with the possible ramifications of the answers to those questions. I was forced to face a side of me that I never knew existed. It was very painful, but my life has changed because of it.

Eyid. Please take my advice. There is nobody on this site who is not familiar with your general struggles, and we all feel your pain very acutely. If Dov or anybody else asks you a tough or personal question, or makes a hurtful comment, DON'T IMMEDIATELY DISMISS IT!!! There is real wisdom here. Unfortunately, most if not all of it has come from some very painful experiences. Do some serious introspection and trust the guys here that what they are saying has a lot of merit, and think 10 times before dismissing it as irrelevant. That's what I did and it has changed my entire perspective on life, and particularly marriage.
May you have Hatzlocha finding the right path, and may you be zoche to follow it as far as it will take you.
That's my 2 cents worth. I hope I was helpful.
Hatzlocha!!!

I am a 58 year old male stuggling with M & P and worse, since puberty. I wont go into detail but I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOUR STRUGGLING WITH. It doesn't go away, you just try to deal with it, sometimes more then others. I almost lost my wife when she caught me --------. But when I admitted that this was something I realized I couldn't fix myself and I needed help, she became understanding. I still have my problems but her complete support changed the way I see her. I love her even more and that is a big part of my cure. Keep up the fight, you are worth it, your wife is worth it. You owe it to yourself, you are entitled to be happy. Return Again

dov wrote on 28 Feb 2011 23:38:


@Dov - I was just trying to take the edge off your stingy questions. You may skip the wedding album requirement

I am beginning to like you, even with the "o" thing...

quite an interesting group of responses.  i think the letter to my wife sounds compelling, she is just so scarred from having discovered this 5+ years ago, i know it still hurts her.  she doesn't buy into the whole "addiction" thing.  I've tried to explain it to her, but she sees it as pure betrayal (which of course it is).  I was wondering whether anyone has had success with their wives learning more about the problem, or getting some support herself from other spouses who have faced this issue, so she does not feel so alone.  but then again, she is a very strong person, who sees this as an issue between us, and i know she has forgiven me, but will never forget what happened. 

if she even sees my eyes straying on the street, i know she is upset.  she tells me she worries every time i go on a business trip, which i understand. 

just looking to grow here, feel like i have found an island i needed

First - As far as your wife getting support, there is a spouses forum that she can go to where there are many other women who are dealing with the same issues. So has my wife told me. Maybe if you include this option in your letter to her, she may be more willing to try it.

Second - There is a wonderful shiur given by Rabbi Reisman all about overcoming our shortcomings where he touches on addictions as well. It is a phenomenal shiur which will help you tremendously to understand yourself, and what it is Hashem wants you to do now and in the future. It may be a good idea to ask her to listen to it after you have, to help her get some perspective on what this addiction is all about. Here is a link to that shiur.  www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Music/mus/ShiurYesodos.mp3

Lastly - There is an anonymous phone conference for spouses to get some help and perspective. If she is interested in that, it can very possibly help.

Let me just end with a little of my own 2 cents. None of the suggestions that I just gave you, or any others for that matter, will have any affect whatsoever if she is not interested in pursuing them. As long as she continues to feel like it's your fault and you just have to grow up and you betrayed her and she can never trust you again and ............... she is not interested in getting help. She doesn't feel like she needs any help!! And there is only 1 person who can get her to want to get help.

And that's you.

If you had a good relationship before this came up, then in all likelihood she remembers and can learn to get it back once again. But it needs to come from you. Write that letter. Read it over 20 times before giving it to her. Include in it how it is your fault, you know you were wrong, your relationship means the world to you, and you love her very much. Tell her what you have done so far to try and beat this thing. Tell her about us. (YEAH!!) Tell her about how you plan to keep up the fight, and how you will do anything and everything in your power and beyond to completely eradicate the addiction. Tell her how much her support would mean to you, but stress that you are determined to fight this battle with or without it. Be sincere. Women have an uncanny ability to know when we are for real and when we are full of it. (That's probably how most of us got caught in the first place!!) If you are sincere, and you speak your heart, you may find a tremendous change in her immediately, and she may be more willing to pursue help.

May you be zoche to have Siyata Dishmaya in whatever you choose to do, because without it we have nothing regardless!!!!

That's all I got. I hope it helps you.