Hey everyone! I've been meaning to do this for the longest time but I pushed it off till now probably cuz I was lacking the strength and courage for it. Well a bunch of recent events have made me realize that I have to get my act together and finally tell my tale and get on this forum! My story sounds like so many others on this site, but I feel that its good for myself to just spit it out, and mayb it'll help soomeone else too. I'm a 23 year old guy single guy who grew up in a normal, loving, frum family. I went to great yeshivos and still contiue to learn full time in yeshiva. I was always a really good kid,a real goody goody, and first got into porn when I was in 8th grade, probably out of sheer curiousity. This was really shortlived though, being that I got caught by my rebbi soon after I found these websites. As I said I was a good kid, and getting caught got me scared and kept me off it for many years, till after high school. In terms of masturbating I had never even heard of it till 12th grade, and even then I didn't play around with it just cuz it didn't interest me. I went to israel for a few years and somehow there I picked up masturbating, although it was a rare occurence and wud definitely not b called an addiction.  Wen I came bak from israel, I was learnin in yeshiva for a few months, but I had to come bak home for a few months to study for graduate school. And this is where my problems began...Although I was learning in yeshiva at the time, I was still home for many hours of the day and being home and bored is never a good combo. In the beginning I wud just play around on the computer, but eventual 1 thing led to the next and I wud find myself on porn sites and finishing each session with masturbating and then having that really guilty feeling and then swearing off it forever. But as everyone here knows it was only a matter of time till I was bak on those same sites. I fell for the y"h tricks every time, always convincing myself that this time it wud b different, but to no avail. And then, somehow by the mercy of Hashem I came across this site. It was a real eye-opener to see how widespread this addiction was, and also how severe it was. The countless stories of how low ppl fell really shook my core. I signed up for the chizuk emails and they really helped me out. At the time I thought that I wasn't really addicted and a simple reminder every day wud b enough for me to get over this thing. It seems laughable now how ridiculous I was, but once again the y"h was playing his tricks on me. Eventually I got bak into my habits, and it actually got worse cuz I had a full access phone wit internet, and I used that in bed before I went to sleep. This continued wen I was able to go bak to yeshiva, although it wasn't a nightly occurence being that the guilt kept me off for periods of time. Eventually after falling enough, I decided to finally sign up for a 90 day chart, thinking that seeing myself on a chart wud do the trick. For a while it did help, but without any change in myself nothin was gonna help and eventually I fell again and many times after that. This trend continued for a while, until a few months ago a few pretty bad things happened to me a few days in a row. Had they happened a few weeks apart it wudnt have been so bad, but just so many things happening like that rite after each other was crazy!! I took it as a sign from Hashem that he was really upset at me and he was makin me feel pain in other areas to make me wake up and finally change (a theme I had heard in a few chizuk emails shortly before all this stuff happened). That nite I sat down and wrote myself a letter with a few kabbalos and I decided to read it every nite before bed to remind myself of wat I had to do. B"h I can say that wit Hashems help since that nite I have been clean of porn and masturbation, a period of 94 days!! But unfortunately my story has a bit of a nasty twist and this is kinda wat made me realize that I have to get on this forum. In middle of this recent clean period I started dating a girl. We went on a bunch of dates, and as it moved along I realized that I had to tell her about my past cuz it just wudnt b fair to keep somethin soo big from her. I had never told any1 about my addiction, not my parents nor my rebbi hu I'm really close wit, I was just too embarrassed! And I knew this wudnt b an easy thing to do either just cuz I didn't know wat her reaction wud b, and I could never find the courage to bring it up. I constantly played over scenarios in my head of how I shud do it, but I just cud never get around to it. With the help of Hashem somehow we got into a whole conversation about how I say the first 4 perakim of tehilim before bed to help for zera levatala which led into a convo about masturbation and porn. I told her how widespread it is...and I guess from seeing how much I knew about the topic she asked me the million dollar question, am I involved wit these things? I took a deep breath and basically spit it all out, knowing full and well wat the reprecussions cud b. But b"h she took it so well, she was so undertsanding and impressed that I was on this site and takin steps towards recovery, knowing full well that she cudnt understand the nisayon but shed b behind me in my recovery. I felt like I had taken the biggest weight off my chest, wat a relief!! Telling her was probably the best thing I cudve done for my relationship, and honestly for me it really propelled things so much further. I know knew that no matter wat I cud tell her anything and wed b able to get thru it. And she was equally thankfull about how honest I was with her. As we went out more and more, naturally our reltionship got more serious and our feelings for each other had reached a climax. We went on a few dates where we wanted soo badly to just touch each other, and we actually had come pretty close, but we both knew that we just cudnt do that!! Our next few dates tho is where the trouble began...it all started wit sitting next to each other by a ball game, where the seats we sat in basically had us sitting up against each other. To make a long story short, at first we just decided to not touch skin on skin, but eventually everything went down the tubes [triggering details removed by moderator] We decided that we can't b like this and we had to get bak to our normal relationship, and everything seemed to b ok. So much so that our parents had actually met that day and we had a set up a date for our vort. But the next few days were basically a living hell for me. Basically she felt so guilty about wat happened that she cudnt even look at me, wat we had done had torn a a huge hole in our relationship. Its not like I didn't feel bad about wat happened, cuz I did!! But being on this site has helped me to deal wit falls, even ones as big as the ones I had just gone thru, and I knew the only way to get out of it was to learn from it and try to move on. I admitted to my parents and rebbi wat happened, altho I was so emb bout the whole thing all I cud say was that 1 nite we weren't shomer and just hugged a bit, which even that was hard to say. When I told them wat happened, I cudnt get the words out I was crying soo hard. But they helped me settle down a lot and were very understanding of the whole situation. She also told her parents and it helped her, but our relationship was kinda on the rocks. We basically took a break for 2 days and tried to get things bak to where they were. We went on a normal date again, and b"h things were moving in the rite direction, but still very far from where we were. My rebbi gave us gedarim in terms of speaking for the last week and a half and b"h it really has helped us tremendously. Also I got her involved wit gye, and she posted this whole story on the womens forum and says she's getting such amazing chizuk from every1, which is also helping us out like crazy. Today I am actually goin to b seeing her for the first time in almost 2 weeks and I hope that it will all go smoothly, cuz I really love her and I want so badly for our realtionship to work cuz I really think that this is my basheret and the girl that will help me grow in all areas of my life!! Wow that was a real mouthful but glad I finally got it out, wow am I happy to finlly join this family in person!! 

Hi Stayingfocused,

As you know, I have already heard this story from the special girl you are dating. Im so glad she is finding support with the girls.
It is very important that the 2 of you speak to a Rav who is involved with these issues before making your final decision. She already has been given the name of someone if you are uncomfortable speaking to your own Rav. Its important that you be 100% open and honest about everything, no matter how difficult that may be.
If this relationship does continue, I STRONGLY suggest very strict, unbreakable gedarim:
Meeting in person only every few weeks
Phone conversations without a trace of triggering topics
Never meeting in any place even close to a yichud situation

Now is the time to set up the rules you would want in your own kadosh home some day. Get it right NOW.

And being "Shomer" doesn't end when you get married. It just changes to half the time vs. all the time, which is not really any easier. And if you messed up in the past it's far easier to repeat.

So like 7up said if you want to have a proper holy Jewish home, you have a lot of work to do.

But you seem to have found a really understanding girl and you seem to have a truly open relationship which if used for mutual growth can take you really far.

Much Hatzlacha.

I CAN NOT JUDGE

I CAN NOT OPINE

I DON'T KNOW YOU

AND THERE ARE LIVES AT STEAK HERE

OF COURSE YOU FEEL HORRIBLE

TAKE THIS OPPURTUNITY TO LEARN FROM IT

ALSO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LISTEN TO 7UP

SPEAK TO A COMPITANT RAV AND THERAPIST



IF YOU NEED THIS FORUM

WE ARE HERE FOR YOU



WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES

WE ALL DO

IT'S NORMAL AND HUMAN


THE MAIN THING AT THIS POINT IT TO REALIZE

THAT YOU NEED TO HEAL YOUR HEART

YOUR POTENTIAL KALLAHS HEART

AND WITHOUT SOUNDING TO CORNY YOU NEED TO HEAL YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH HASHEM


NOW FOR THE GOOD NEWS

THERE ARE VERY FEW THINGS THAT ARE ME-UVOS LO YACHOL LISSKON
(BROKEN THAT CAN"T BE FIXED)

THERE IS A WAY BACK OUT OF EVERY SITUATION

NOT SAYING THAT FIXING 2 BROKEN HEARTS IS NOT VERY PAINFUL IT IS

BUT FIXING YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH HASHEM IS THE ORDER OF THE DAY

YOU LEARNED IN THE FINEST YESHIVOS

YOUR RABBEIM TAUGHT YOU

YOUR PARENTS TAUGHT YOU

YOU NEED TO TAKE THOSE LESON AND APPLY THEM

JUST LIVING LIFE JUST FOR THE KICKS AND PASSING TIME

DIN'T GET YOU TOO FAR

TAP INTO WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW  AND..

APPPLY IT

CHANGE YOUR DAVENING

GO TO MIKVAH

THINK ABOUT HASHEM

REACH OUT TO HASHEM

TEFILLA

TEHILLIM

SAY THE WHOLE TEHILLIM

IT WORKS

MY DEAR FREIND

PEOPLE CAN CHANGE THEIR WAYS

AND FIX THEMSELVES

GET IN TOUCH WITH BEING CLOSE TO THE "TATTEH IN HIMMEL"



ALL THAT I WRITE HERE IS NON-JUDGEMENTAL



WE ARE HERE TO HELP


DON'T DO ANYTHING OUT OF DESPERATION



BE MATZLIACH

KROV HASHEM LICHOL KOARV

LICHOL EVEN TO YOU!!



bards

Wow, this is such a serious thread that I don't want to ruin it...

But if this shidduch works out in the end, it will be Invei HaGefen B'Invei HaGefen...

I can already see the virtual dancing that will be going on at the wedding...

Guard on one side of the mechitzah with all the GYE's, and 7-UP on the other with all the GYE women...

I'm getting all choked up

EBD

Wow! Quite a story.  I pray that God write a happy ending for it.

Jooboy wrote on 16 Jan 2011 16:34:


G-d always writes a happy ending, but as Reb B's Zaidy used to say:

Please G-d: Write an ending which even we mortals will be able to understand is happy!

EBD

ben durdayah wrote on 16 Jan 2011 22:34:


zaide made us laugh

zaidey made us sing!!!!!!!!!

moishe yess ob"m

Oiy, dus is gevein ah Yid?

Mir ken zuggen oif ehm,

And who will be the Moshe Yess for are childrun
Who will be their folk singer if not me?

(But I can't play steel guitar like he did).

Thanks Bards, now I'm really depressed.

Hey thanx everyone for replying and giving me some chizuk. As i had written in my original post, last week me and the girl im dating ended up meeting in person for the first time since out whole episode happened. Unfortunately our date didnt exactly go as planned, and actually it probably was our worst date ever!! The feelings we had for each other just werent there, and it was actually pretty difficult to get a convo going, a problem we had never encountered. Out of desperation i decided that we call a rav together right then and there to help us figure out what was wrong. We anonymously called a big expert on these types of issues, and told him EVERYTHING from start to finish, sparing no detail. Besides for feeling relieved at telling someone the entire story, the advice we got was really helpful. The rav told us that having a bad day is very normal, esp with all the pressure on this one date that it had to go well or else... But he also helped separate what happened, from our feelings for each other. Obviously we have to make stronger fences to prevent anything from happening, but he told us that as long as everything we admire about each other is still there,and b"h its all there, then there is no reason why this shouldnt end up working out. Also, lot of the points he had made were actually things i had heard from my own rebbi when i had spoken to him about the issue, but i think it was really good for my date to hear all this stuff directly from a rav that is a huge expert on these issues, rather than from me telling her it. Hopefully time will help us heal, and iy"h everything will work out.

Yes indeed, IMHO -every date is a pressure-cooker; all the more so in your particular situation. But in a way -that's a good training for marriage. You definitely have something besides raw physical attraction between you, and it would be a shame that your mutual slip -which is something that could be a springboard for shared growth -should ruin what you had going there.

It seems that in a way, there is a temptation here -albeit deep down in the subconscious and unintentional  -to try and forget about what happened by blaming the incident for wrecking everything that you had both thought that you had had in common, as if leaving one another by mutual agreement would erase the incident from your minds, hearts and souls. It's clear that even if you were to leave each other, the emotional and psychological scars will not go away in the near future -if they ever will heal; not to mention the perpetual "Gee, what would have happened if...This is true of any relationship which has broken up, especially if its full potential was never realized.

Over here it would be very easy to break up -don't you both have a good reason? Of course! That isolated incident, since then the pure freshness of the budding relationship and the easygoingness has just up and left.

Good Morning guys, this is life, and this is marriage itself. The trick of a good and solid marriage is how we revive the spark after an incident, an argument, under stress, when it kind of starts getting boring... and the list goes on and on.

This whole business seems like one big Ma'aseh Satan intended to ruin a union that was looking promising.

Stuff Happens. (I imagine that you both know the original saying)

On the contrary, what keeps people together is what they have in common, and here you have just one more shared experience -and since you both regret it, why the hard feelings? Stop labeling it or yourselves as good or bad. Sometimes it just happens. Just add it to the long list of things that you both felt that you have in common, obviously that list must have been pretty long if you came that close to an engagement. Look at it as a warning sign of what happens when a couple doesn't follow the Torah's guidelines to the maximum -something which is even more important after you're married -and keep on trucking in tandem!

With the deepest wishes for your shared Hatzlacha,

Elazar ben Durdayah 

well-said, EBD

Wow!! ebd that's quite a post, I mustve read it 20 times over the course of the day trying to absorb the truth of all that u said. We actually talked about how gettin out of this relationship wudnt help our scars heal, and we have to work really hard to move on and try to grow from it. I actually also had a similar thought that b"h the relationship we share is seriously unbelievable! We had such a great connection to each other, both emotionally and spiritually. We actually always say how jealous ppl probably r of us lol. And cuz of that, I really thought the y"h was working extra hard to try to break us apart!! My feelings r that I'm in this till the end 100%. I know how special our relationship is and I really wanna make it work and grow from wat happened and from wat we have. I'm just scared cuz I'm really not sure how to get our spark bak. I thought we had reconnected and were well on r way, and then BOOM!! We had the worst possible date! I have spoken to rabbeim about it, and they said its normal for that to happen, and u have to try to put it behind u and just have a great time. I'm just pretty nervous about it cuz honestly I don't know exactly wat took our spark away. I'd love to say it was our mutual fall, but at the end of the day that happened a few weeks ago. We made a mistake, albeit a terrible 1, but is it so hard to put that behind us and try to move forward?? I spoke to a big expert in these issues and he said I have nothing to worry about, but mayb there is something else there that's holding us bak, and its not just our mistake?!?! Idk wat to say, I'm a bit confused hopefully well b able to get thru this. Were actually goin out tom, I hope it all goes smoothly and we have ab awesome time!!

I will weigh in here
"Only" because it is a public forum

If u feel that what I sAy is too harsh or misses the mark please ignore it

One more disclaimer
I don't know you so I can't answer for you personally

I would like to attempt to answer one part of your question

What can I do to get the spark back?

That is a profound question

You are obviously a very intelligent person. Yes wise people make silly mistakes too

So this is NOT a mussar shmooze

This is an excersize in answering a serious  question

Here goes

Marriage is built on the excitement of the period of courtship. I.e. dating engagement etc. There is a yearning and excitement to get to the next level

I have no nicer way to say this

How do u expect to back "down" to the excitement stage of engagement??

Herr ois!

U have a issue that married ppl deal with


So let me give u a suggestion

Us maRried folk have 2 weeks off

Maybe u take a 2 week break from seeing and texting and facebooking emailing twittering

Act old fashioned

Call,write a card

Build up the excitement

Best of luck

I hope u marry her

U can both have a very happy life together

B

My rebbi actually made a similar point. In trying to explain how we, 2 very frum jews, who always laughed at the thought of not being shomer, fell so hard, he said that the dating period is 1 of constant progression. Our relationship had progressed to the point where the next logical step wud b to get engaged. For wtvr reason,though, that cudnt happen then. Feeling a need to progress even more we turned to physical things, which def helps bring ppl closer. In our situation, after a few days time it had the complete opposite result!! After that my rebbi gave us gidarim which allowed for us to talk only 2 a week, to help bring us bak to ourselves and try to get over the incident that happened. It seemed to work    in that we seemed to b moving bak in the rite direction, but then our first date after this week and a half break just went really bad. There didn't seem to b a connection, although we talked later that evening as well as the next day and things seemed to b headed in the rite direction again. This left me confused, like it seemed 1 day the spark wass there and the next day its not!! Once again things seem to b goin well, we r still keeping those gidarim, but I'm still nervous for tom, like wat happens if its a repeat of last date??!! I wish I knew wat the problem behind this all was so we can just work on it and get it out of here!!