maybye reb yechezkal isnt a addict like us. He just hit a bump in road of life and now he is over it. Why do we need to throw everything at him. We have all had life changing experiences.

I'd be curious to know how many of us saw the events of September 11th unfold before our eyes, said we would change (maybe actually did change for a while, particulary since we had such a strong Yom Kippur that year).  And years later we were back looking again at porn.

i drove by the first WTC bombing aftermath in '93 and saw the 9/11 attacks (second plane hitting) with my eyes.
unfortunately, it did not cause me to change. the image of the fireball is a painful one for me, though.

bottom line is that there needs to be the confluence of the experience and the 'open' state of the witness, the will and desire to change. otherwise it's all ho-hum after a while.

I didnt find out about the crashes untill five hours later. I was to busy watching porn. My wife came home later and began talking about it and i had no idea what she was talking about.

Well said. As for me, I haven't the luxury of being concerned at all with the afterlife, as I certainly never got sober because of yiras Shomayim, and - though the weight of guilt was devastating - it didn't hold a candle to my insanity. Though I certainly believe in consequences for aveiros, the fear of future pain of this world or of the next - never helped me quit. In my opinion, that is one of the things that shows me that I have a mental illness. It's plum crazy to risk a nice job, a marriage, my integrity, my relationships with my children, and my Olam Haba for a temporary adventure that always makes me thoroughly miserable. And the "Oh, just please clean me up and take me back!!" close/far relationship with Hashem was just plain stupid. It was not 'ratzo vashov', as the s'forim seemed to be telling me. It was stupid.

While I may have hesitated or even desisted from doing a few lust-related aveiros a few dozen times over those terrible years - that has nothing at all to do with my sobriety. Acting out only 10% of the times I want to is still going to eventually ruin my life - totally. Eventually there will be nothing left...except for that lovely s'char for resisting 90% of the time.... Woopee.

That is not avodas Hashem, as far as I am concerned.

And sobriety certainly has nothing to do with willpower, for when it comes to lust I have none. I have not gotten any stronger. And I would not be surprised if it turned out that I do not live sober very much longer, c"v. To the contrary, I will be shocked if at the age of whatever, when I am 'ready' to die, I am still sober.

It was a freebie; it is a freebie, and - if I remain sober tomorrow - it will be a freebie. I do not deserve to be sober.

So if He gives me no s'char at all for desisting from acting out for 60 years or so by the time I die, I will have no complaints.  For it wasn't mine, at all. Besides being a good man, a decent father and husband, and an eved Hashem, I am a recovering pervert, as my wife and many friends in SA know, and I hope to die a recovering pervert. And that is just the way I like it.

What madreigah I am considered to be on by my Best Eternal Friend, whether I am looking forward to s'char, or onesh, and all other considerations that I am powerless over are out of my lexicon, thank-G-d. That's all His business now, and forever, not mine. All that stuff is just too confusing and self-absorbing for me and never did me a shred of good in the first place. It is all poison for me. Poison, poison, poison. And I sincerely believe that He wants me to ignore the 'acounting' part of my situation completely and leave it to Him, especially with respect to my lust.

Finally, I need to remember that my sexaholic

What is my business, is what I do with the sober life that He gives me today and whether I treasure it.

dov wrote on 18 Nov 2010 17:42:


This yesod is something that I have been trying to learn for many years.It is not just in regard to sobriety that makes this important.It is for anyone that has a specific type of personality,such as myself,where this "yiras haonesh",the fear of retribution causes way more harm than good in the overall scheme of things.Guilt ,in certain small measure,to aid in being pro-active may work,but for me, the feelings of guilt have been ,as Dov put very well,"poison,poison,poison",and so I do not focus on guilt anymore, and work instead on being self-aware,and by doing so,I relate to God in a unique way that works for me because it is true and it is a relationship that has no false pretenses to it.

I'm not there yet,far from it,but that is my goal.

guilt has its purposes but it can often destroy a person entirely.It almost did me in.

Dear Yechida,

Thanks for the he'oros and the sharing.

But I was not writing for anyone but Yechezkel.

I would like to know if he hears me...but that's really his business, not mine.

FFTS, there is none such a term in addiction "he's a addict like me or like mike" each addict with his level of addiction and if someone was involved in this addiction as OP said he's clearly an addict and the only way he'll get out probably will be by recovery but this will take lot of time, just stopping is not gana get us anywhere and I'm talking to myself here too, that if I start the 12 steps I know its not enough if I fell of the boat I need to go back up or my life will be in the dumps once again,
Dov is correct about being sober has nothing with yiras shumaim, it never helped and I don't see it helping, we need to be sober just to be sane, than will worry about being a yri shumayim

Who's worrying about being a yrei Shomayim? He'll help you get that too! Don't worry about it at all. Work, yes, worry, no.

OK, you didn't mean mamesh 'worry', I know, JIP, but it was too tempting to pass up writing that, cuz it really is easier than they make it all out if we chill and keep our noses to the grinding wheel.

And people like Reb b will help us do all that mit ah zing und ah shpring!

Zing un shppring

Yess

Who needs a zing and shringg?

I'm pretty sure our new chaver can use a pimms and sabra cocktail

Lchaim ramatgan

Welcome to ur fold

What is your favorite alchohlic beverage?

B. (Barkeep)

Hey dov,
i'm hearing you loud and clear.....i just don't quite know how to react to your rant! I may have bitten off more than i can chew! I need time to firstly properly understand what you wrote and then formulate a reply.
I really would like the opportunity to talk to you. Is this possible at all? I'm worried you either have the wrong impression of me or that you feel somehow that i'm missing the point, either way we gotta talk dov......
Much love
Yechezkel

Hi bardichev,

thanks for your welcome, my fav drink has to be vodka with tropicana! Served really cold right after a full plate of chulent. Ahh!

Yechezkel

Yechazkel

What about th pimms and sabra?

Dear ramatgan fellow,

Do you know how to PM on this forum?

Don't confuse PM with pimms

A PM from dov os worht its weigjt in gold