Hello Everyone,

I'd like to introduce myself to the group.  I just found out about the site a few months ago and after some struggles I've decided to join after just falling a few minutes ago.  ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! and I need to tackle this full force from now on.

My story is, I am in my late 20's.  A few years back, something happened to me and I decided to turn my life around.  I decided I would stop engaging in this nonsense of the yetzer hora and taivas and became more seriously involved in yiddishkeit.  Ever since then, my life has been on another path overall.  I used to give in daily, for years, maybe since I was 10 or 11 years old--not even knowing what I was doing.  After deciding to turn around I was able to defeat my yetzer hora for 9 whole months!  It was a great achievement and all the while, I was learning about the taiva and what this really does to you spiritually--we even got into some kabbala when we learned about shovavim.

As it stands now, While its cut back alot, I've still ben struggling.  I've had long streaks, as I mentioned, 9 months, 40 days, 1 month, etc. but I keep getting sucked back.  I know this is a big step given that I was doing it daily for over a decade!  I am proud of that--but its not enough.

I've gotten to a point where, after years of doing it daily, I do not constantly have taiva. What's odd is when I have no taiva at all, my head is sort of clear of these thoughts and any lust, sometimes for long periods of time.  Then, usually, around every 2-3 weeks for some reason I end up feeling a compulsion for the filth.  Call it hormones or whatever you want.  It comes out of nowhere--bang.  All of a sudden I'm drawn into watching filth and doing the maise, as if an animal takes over.  This doesn't happen from looking at girls or watching filth, or anything, its just all by itself a stray though this leads me to the filth which leads to maise.  I really do understand what chazal mean when they say one doesn't sin unless a ruach ra enters them and thats exactly how I feel.  Personally, whenever I feel the taiva kick in I call it being bitten by the snake and then what follows is the snakes fangs are still in my neck, until the maise is done.  If my mind is clear, I'm fine, but once that initial machshava gets in, my mind is defected and I might be able to hold out for a few hours or days, but ultimately, I'm done for.  You can call me weird, thats just the way I think and feel about this.

Anyway, like I said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and I'm clearly not doing everything in my power to stop this, because its still prevalent as ever.  I try and stay away from girls or places that are not tznius to keep my mind pure.  I installed a filter an excellent filter using OpenDNS (do you guys know about this one), but I am pretty computer saavy and have the password and just go in and disable it or find a way to get around it if I want to.  I think accountability software would be good for me if I can get someone to help me who will actually be able to affect me if they see me doing something not good.

I'm really just trying to find out where to go from here.  Can someone point me to resources on this site?  I hear there are phone calls too, which might not be a bad idea.  How do I get on accountability software and can someone from this site be my person which reports go to?  What else can I do.  I need to win this.  I am too embarrassed to tell anyone in my family or circle of friends.  The worst part has been the silent struggle except for one doctor I told once, who was frum and it made him seem uncomfortable and a Rebbe I saw in Eretz Yisroel who "knew" somehow and gave me a brucha to be shomer habris.

Other questions I have are, does this get easier once you get married.  Seeing as that I can hold out for 2-3 weeks now, once I get married will this stop being an issue?  Also, what steps can we take to approach others about this?  I know a few people who could use help, but I don't want to out myself.

I feel as though this is the ultimate battle for control of my mind.  I need to figure out how to have a pure mind and pure thoughts.  I NEED to win this. I'm am not the yetzer's.  I am mine.  I am Hashem's.

Anyway, I know this can be done, because I know people who have done it.  How do we get started?

Welcome holykadosh, you certainly are.

I have been living with this problem for more than 20 years and nothing really worked for me till I joined the 12-step program of Sexaholics Anonymous.  That is even after I was discovered looking at porn by my wife - I still could not stop.

I really identified with your very powerful description of what in SA we call "powerlesness".  Once we get started with lust we are not able to be sure that we can control it - it controls us.  I would just point out that the issue is probably not that you are not doing everything within your power as evidenced by your still doing the behavior.  Rather your still doing the behavior is evidence you don't have the power on your own to stop.  So if you don't have the power what do you do?  GOD.  It is the basis of all 12-step programs and a well known chazal that the addiciton or yeter harah is more powerful than we are and NO ONE (not even a tzadik) has the ability to withstand his onslaught without the direct help of GOD.

You have a really great perspective that you are loved by Hashem and that you are not a bad person you just want to stop doing bad things.

Hatzlacha

I forgot to address the marriage question.

My personal experience is that marriage helped (not cured) the masturbation issue but did nothing for the porn problem.

Most addicts use lust to numb, escape or otherwise deal with our difficulties or pains in life. As wonderful as marriage can often be (thought addicts usually have more difficult than average marriages) they are always a lot of work and bring a lot of stress.  That's why it is actually seems more common for people to report that marriage often exacerbates the issues. 

Very often it is becomes more problems and more acting out.  I have heard of people that after marriage started doing behaviors they were not doing previously such as prostitution, strip clubs, etc.

Better to address this issue before marriage and have a much better shot at success.

Hatzlacha

Welcome to the site holyKadosh.  I am reletively new here, but I have been struggling with this problem for longer than you  have been alive.  I wish I was able to find a place like this when I was your age.  So you have alot to thank Hashem for that you found GYE at this point in your life.  You will not be judged here.  You will be accepted no matter what.  I have found only good advice here, sometimes it is a hard pill to swallow, but you will find truth and tools to stay clean from p*rn and m*st.

First sign up for the daily emails if you have not already done so.
http://www.guardureyes.com/GUE/GUEList.asp

Also, read the daily chizuk emails archive.  They are awesome.
http://www.guardureyes.com/GUE/GUEList/GUEList12.asp

You need to read "A daily dose of Dov".  You may not understand his posts at the begining.  I know I did not.  When you start to understand Dov, then you are well on your way to overcoming, with the help of HKBH, this problem.

I am B"H married.  You should not get married thinking that this will get easier.  If you think that, you are basically saying that you are not addicted to p*rn and/or m*ast, and you need an outlet "once in a
while" which will be satisfied by marriage.  This is not ideal.

You have your work cut out for you.  But I am confident that you, because you are a  HolyKadosh, are more than capable to get the job done.  May Hashem Bless you always.

Hey,

I'm more or less your age and had similar questions. From what I gather, our desire for lust will not go away with marriage (it may even get worse). This site is a bit overwhelming at first but you will figure things out with time. Check out www.webchaver.org/ for accountability software. It would be ideal if you can open up to someone that knows you and to send him the reports because the embarrassment will deter you.

You may want to sign up for a partner and/or sponsor. I'm part of a SA group and they teach us that privacy and secrecy are our biggest enemies. Having a partner/sponsor can help. Ideally, try to get a partner that is willing to receive calls and call him whenever you feel weak. You can also send your accountability software reports to him.

i would also read the Handbook (you can download it from the homepage) it will answer many of your questions.

If you have any questions please don't hesitate to post here or to PM/email me.

Hatzlocha.

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the encouragement.  I am 100% sure this can be overcome.  I don't know what the underlying cause is but like I said, BARUCH HASHEM I have already cut back from it being a daily thing to more or less a monthly thing or longer.  I just need the final mile.  Maybe its not even an emotional thing, just habit at this point?

A couple of follow up questions--

1. what is a the 'daily dose of dov' and where do i find it?

2. For anyone who does SA, do you dress down when you go or go as a full fledged yid. I would go but I'm worried about Chilul Hashem. I know people in such groups aren't supposed to judge people, but it happens and also I would DREAD seeing someone I knew there, which is possible.

3. Does anyone do any of the phone groups?  Do you find them helpful?

4. I definitely want the accountability software.  I don't have anyone in person who I think I can go to with this.  Not because I'm isolated or alone or anything like that--its just too embarrassing and I wouldn't want to push this on to anyone I know.  My best bet is probably to start with someone on the forums or a phone group.  Where do I go from here?

Finally, I want to leave everyone with a few words of encouragement.  I really do believe this is possible to overcome and we all just need to work on having a positive attitude.  Life is a journey, not a destination--and the same can be said for any other struggle.

Further, if you need any help with being depressed about it read this.  I once heard a great shtickle torah from a Rebbe on Shmiras Habris.  A father once came to him very distressed about having caught his son watching filth and doing a maise.  He basically begged The Rebbe "Rebbe, please you must help us!!!"  Well The Rebbe picked up quickly and thought the father was too hysterical and over-reacting and asked him "Why are you so freaked out?" "Don't you accept that Hashem is Kuilo Tov"?  The father said "yes Rebbe, but I fail to see how this is tov and how any tov can come from this?"  The Rav answered him and told him, "you need to understand that while you might not see it, your son doing a maise is pure Chesed from Hashem".  The father looked at him bewildered thinking the Rebbe was going insane. The Rav continued "you see, once your son has some taiva and it gets into his head, his head is corrupted, thats it, he has bad machshovois and his head becomes pugum.  Since the zera comes from the brain, Hashem is doing him a Chesed of Chasadim having him remove the pugumed machshovois from his body through his zera levatula and not having those bad and improper thoughts end up as his real-life children Chas Ve'Sholom.  The same is true for any zera levatula"  The father started to calm down when he heard The Rebbe's wise words and realized the Rebbe was right.  But the Rebbe snapped in again quickly, "Now we need to figure out a way to get your son in control of his sheichel."

I personally feel this is my struggle and it might be the same for many people in here.  With that positive perspective, we can definitely overcome this.  Like I said, I feel like this is the ultimate battle for the mind.  Not because I'm depressed or anything, because I'm definitely not, but because all of us here probably need to learn to "deal" with our thoughts and minds better.  Thanks for letting me join the club.

Hello Holykadosh.

Welcome to the forum.

I have done Duvid Chaim's phone group.  (A new cycle is starting up in about 2 weeks).  I highly recommend it.

Looks like you've already gotten a lot of sound advice here, and that you're heading in the right direction.

About SA groups.  I can't say about SA groups, but there have been a couple of informal GYE get-togethers here in Israel.  I was scared to go, but in the end I gained a lot from meeting real people who share this struggle. 

I was also afraid of recognizing someone.  But then, it's really an asset.  It's a relief to find someone you know who you can finally talk to about this issue.  And, why should you be ashamed of seeing him?  He's there for the same reason as you!

Through other means, I recently discovered a collegue of mine who shares the same problem.  We have became a source of encouragement and strength for each other.

  --Eye.

Holykadosh,

Welcome. Your story sounds similar to where I was holding a while back. I could stay clean about a month, then I would fall, then I could stay clean another month, etc. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

One of the things I learned since then, based on some of Dov's postings, is that there are different ways to approach this, and not every approach is sustainable for the long-term.

One approach is to treat it like a struggle. We struggle against our desires. This works short-term. We can repress our lusts a day, a week, a month, a year. But no one can struggle forever (I'm thinking now of an old vort I once heard about Yaacov Avinu and the Gid Hanashe, but I don't remember the details so if I say it I'll just mess up the vort).

The second approach is to treat this not as a struggle, but as a way of life. To live life without lust. Forever.

For many years I followed the first approach, now I'm experimenting with the second approach.

1) Don't know, it seems to be good, many people write about it on these forums. I plan on joining...

2) Many people asked the very same question. From my understanding, you can go as a frum Jew. I'm currently working on the second step but the basis of SA is that you need to get out of your isolation. The fact that it is so difficult for you just proves how important it is. I would attend one if I could but I travel a lot. I'm attending a "virtual one" and it is helping me tremendously. If you have the opportunity to go, I would highly recommend it.

3) Yes. I find them extremely helpful. These forums are great but discussing this over the phone makes it more real.

4) I'm sure that your partner/sponsor will be glad to help you out.

Thanks for the wonderful story. Great approach.

Hatzlocha!

Holykadosh,

I am a member of SA for a bit under a year.  SA has really revolutionized my life. 

You can go dressed as a clown if you like - no one cares.

There are many frum jews who are members and go dressed as they always do - beard, jacket, hat and for the chasidim that come a bekeshe and tzitis over the vest.

There is no chilul hashem involved whatsoever, rather a huge kiddush hashem.  Does anyone think there are more Jewish sex addicts?  I doubt it.  Just by the goyim they call it being cool, getting the girls and having a good time.  It is the people striving for a better life that try and do something about it.

There is a very disproportionate number of jews and catholics in SA because they naturally agree with the SA sobriety definition of no sex outside marriage and no masturbation, activities that other 12-step S groups permit.

I heard a long time member of SA describe the whole perspective of sex addictions as such and I think there is a lot wisdom in it:  "We are not bad people trying to become good.  We are sick people trying to get healthy." 

Many of us were born sex addicts and had unusually strong interests in sexually related things at a very young age when there is no normal sex drive.  I have heard of addicts that started masturbating as young as 5 years old.

So in short, SA is in my opinion the most powerful tool out there to combat this issue and make sure you come with your yarlmuke on so I know to make sure and give you a special welcome and show you where mincha is after the meeting 

Welcome Holykadosh

Well done on taking those steps and for joining us.
I found that when you try tackle the problem alone, you end up eventually falling and going through the whole loop again.
When you're part of a group, it gives you so much more willpower to overcome it. Next time you feel any urges coming on and begin to act out, imagine we're all standing behind you, watching you.

It sounds like you've made huge progress in tackling this issue and I'm sure that with a few small mind-set changes you will have it under control.
For me, there were some attitude adjustments needed and I feel (and behave) so much better now.

When I learnt about shovavim it was a huge wake-up call. Before, I knew I was doing something wrong, but attached no seriousness to it. I then became very depressed – this was my rock-bottom.

Have you read the GYE attitude and GYE handbook?
Maybe put a visual reminder on your desktop to remind you that there is a problem because it’s when we forget that we have a problem that we fall.

ToAdd

First of all, welcome (a bit belated, but better than nothing, right?)!

The fact that you took the step to join this site is a great move. You're right, though - a filter and even accountability software isn't meant to be a permanent cure. It's meant to be a fence, give you a little breathing room, while you do the work that needs to be done to get free.

For most people, there's a reason why they're involved in this. There's a feeling you get, it's more than just a habit like biting nails. And part of why you're here is to face that, open up about it, to people who will accept you, and respect you for the struggle you're facing, and the work you're doing.

One of the good things about posting is that you have to examine your thoughts, and how you're feeling - and if you see yourself starting to be tempted, you can bring those feelings out into the light, where they're a LOT easier to deal with.

As far as getting married - there are plenty of married people here, so I'd have to say that the answer is no. I recently got engaged, and while it's great, it doesn't remove my urges and temptations completely. It's still a lot of work to focus my attention entirely on her.

Remember, Lust is a selfish desire. You don't want that part of your life, and perhaps that's even worse once you get married - whether or not you look at porn, or are mz"l, you hopefully want to be able to truly care about and focus on your wife.

To do that, you need to be free of your other master.

The daily dose of dov is in the the daily chizuk e-mails! Are you signed up?