Tried-123-

What do you mean in your signature when you say the goal should be to become totally abstinent. Why?

Willsucceed-

How are you. You around? Holding out?

shmiras wrote on 30 Jun 2010 07:01:


Hi Shemiras,

Are you related to ShemiratHaeinaim who used to hang around here?

The reason I put that in my signature is because I was having some differences of opinion with the admin of the forum as to what the right approach to dealing with Mas...bating is.

R' Shlome Wolbe Zt"l wrote that it is a waste of time for Bochurim to fight Mas...bation. He says that the right approach is to build a strong social life and to get into learning, and the problem will slowly cure itself on its own.

He says that almost all Bochurim fall in this area and that it is impossible for them to stop and that it is important to be understanding of yourself....

I work with this approach... but the admin believes otherwise so I put a disclaimer in my signature...

I personally believe that we have to simply try our best and that if you sometimes full NU NU...
Being overly perfectionistic about never ever ever falling only intensifies that problem and leads to guilt despair and difficulties in many other areas...

Lo Olecha Hamelacha Ligmor...

Tried-123

Few things I'd like to say. You're welcome to disagree, and everyone has their own mehalech. I agree that some need the approach of focusing on positivity but I don't think r' wolbe was saying that its okay. He was saying not to get down on yourself if you fall and do your best not to by focusing elsewhere. Also, r'wolbe was not dealing with people who are dealing with what we, of todays internet generation deal with. Also, I know many people who have held off from p-n and m-n, as singles, for weeks, months, years, so it is definitely doable, but again, everyone needs to try what works for them and definitely should not get down on themselves no matter what. As far as abstinence- being abstinent means to abstain from all sex, as I understand it, which I don't believe is what you are trying to say.judaism does not promote abstinence, pru urvu is a huge mitzvah, and frankly no one would exist without it, so to other religions that promote abstinence, I personally think its a ridiculous idea. Sex is not a bad thing, it has the potential to be used to rectify the negativity we've done as well by connectiong with a spouse and using it for something good as opposed to negativity of the past, which is a real teshuva.

-V'lo ata ben chorin lehibatel mimenah

I did not mean to say it is ok...
hashem said that it is not ok...

The Question is how to fight the battle: Direct or Indirect

For many people it is impossible to never fall... So says R' Wolbe, not little me.

Okay- first of all he says rov- we don't have to be part of that rov we can be the other 49 percent

Second- that was pre- GYE eyes days, which we hope to remedy.

And yes- you are absolutely right, direct or indirect is a big question. In my opinion, I think it takes a mix of the two. These days, it is just as difficult to fill our days with positivity as it is to remove negativity. Were between a rock and hard place, so for me, it takes newfound positive work, as well as direct, confrontational fighting. Most of all, I feel that k'fi derech hateva it is true that were powerless. R 'wolbe is right. (I love alei shur by the way). We cannot be misgaber over it. Hashem can just remove us from it. We just need to ask. That's pretty indirect fighting. We ask daddy to kill the oppressor. Seems like a good deal to me

No?

shmiras wrote on 01 Jul 2010 07:13:


First,
רוב רובם means MOST people...

Second,
If that approach works for you than by all means use it...

Third,
Hope to see you around...

Hello WillSucceed

I just want to add that we are ALL here for you.

How can one read your story and not cry?

May every tear reach Avinu Malkeinu and proclaim "We are your children and we stand by each other!"

ToAdd wrote on 01 Jul 2010 08:55:


I did not get a chance to read your story yet...
I will Iy"h....

Much success.....

The faster the you jump in the faster you will move. Please join us for Elya's call tonight at 9pm EST. He has a worse story than yourself. I am looking forward to "meeting" you. Here is the info.

Dial-In Number: 1-712-429-0690

Participant PIN: 225356

Please join us, you will be helping yourself and all the rest of us.


Also Welcome to the family.