silentbattle wrote on 22 Feb 2010 23:23:

But what is success...?

Anytime you resist the urge for a day, an hour, a second!

I always point to the chofetz chaim that says that when we resist the yetzer hora even for a moment (he's talkign about lashon hora, but I assume that the same would apply to our struggles - I've actually been told that the chazal that the chofetz chaim is referring to is actually talking about our struggles) - for just one moment, we merit a reward, and a revelation fro god that no creation (even angels) can comprehend!

So - every second we stay clean is worth celebrating. And we can celebrate as you stay clean, one day at a time!

to my fellow yidden, i would like to share with you some of the benefits/rewards that come with being clean in the hope to give you chizuk.this comes from MYSELF, not 2nd hand evidence:
1 - when you daven, you don't feel like a hypochrite.davening is SO much more meaningful.
2 - when you shake the rabbi's hand in shul on shabbos or during the week, you don't feel like a hypochrite.
3 - learning improves 1000 percent! because your mind is clear.
4 - if you're married, when you're finally with your wife it is TRULY special.
5 - you learn discipline - you will need sexual discipline later in life.
6 - last but DEFINITELY not least, you are doing the will of G-d, our Creator and Master.
There are more but i don't have time right now... jack

jack wrote on 23 Feb 2010 13:38:


Is there any time that we don't need sexual discipline?

good point - i just meant that there will be times when you need it MORE than usual.such as nida, or sickness, etc. jack

DesperateJew wrote on 22 Feb 2010 23:19:
Pronto!! Couldnt of been said better!! To much "bigman" talk so ive stayed out of it for now, but i do wanna say hello and welcome!

if you make it to black belt, you WON't forget everything you learned, it will be part of you forever.provided you studied authentic martial arts, not some fly-by-night martial arts get-black-belt-in-2-years thing.same with this - GYE is the REAL thing - stick with it and it will bw with you forever. jack

Welcome Welcome Holy Jew,

Today is day 322 for me only thru  the grace and kindness of Hashem

one day at a time!!!!

getting on the 90 day chart was perhaps the best thing I ever did!

The power of being a member of GYE and the WOH will definitely go a long way towards your ultimate success in obtaining  holiness ,purity and most importantly sanity

Fiery welcoming hugs to hero fighter of Israel

Noorah the smallest of the house of Amram

Hey there - how are you doing?

silentbattle wrote on 22 Feb 2010 23:01:


R' Silent Battle,

I respectfully and fully   disagree with you. 'Perfectionism' is a Machla not good for any one...

On the surface it seems wonderful but it aint...

The right thing to strive for is Excellence

See Here http://drsorotzkin.com/pdf/pursuit_of_perfection.pdf

And Here http://drsorotzkin.com/understanding_perfectionism.html

Also in my humble unqualified opinion you are best off putting your primary focus on One day at a Time, Staying clean just for today.
The 90 days is good to have in the back of your mind.

You correctly point out that excessive emphasis on getting to 90 will make it very difficult for you to move forward if you C"v fall. You have to realize that you are indeed taking a very big (and wonderful) leap...

Just for Today stay clean!!! Tomorrow we"ll worry about tomorrow...

Peace and Love Holy Bro....

Reb Trying - you are certainly entitled to disagree with me. however, the more I think about it, the more I think we're getting caught up in semantics.

I apologize that i did not read the entire articles, considering that both were very lengthy.

Let me define my terms, though (the way I understand works with some of the textbook definitions of the word, although possibly not all) - I'm using perfectionist to mean someone who wants to see perfection.

It doesn't have to be today, or tomorrow - but it's a real goal. And let's face it, we have that goal in every other area in life - why not in spirituality?

Again, perfection is also defined by who we are - we need to be perfect, but my perfection is not yours, nor is yours, mine.

Fine - let's call it excellence instead.

I think that excellence works the same way - but someone who aspires to perfection or excellence will be disappointed at failure, if it's something that's important to them - even if for them, "failure" means good, but not excellent.

Someone who wants to be an excellent human being, but does not see himself improving as much as he;d like - that is naturally frustrating. And while we need to take a healthy approach to this frustration, I think it's normal, and for most people, even healthy, for frustration to be there!

I agree with Trying123 that the main focus, certainly at the beginning, should be one day at a time - possibly even an hour at a time, if you need to.

However, there is a tremendous power of distance from this disease, and the value of that should not be discounted.

R' Silent: I hear you...

Just want to share something from Dr. David Burns...

"Perfection is man’s ultimate illusion. It simply doesn’t exist in the universe. There is no perfection. It’s really the world’s greatest con game; it promotes riches and delivers misery. The harder you strive for perfection, the worse your disappointment will become, because it’s only an abstraction, a concept that doesn’t fit reality. Everything can be improved if you look at it closely and critically enough- every person, every idea, every work of art, every experience, everything. So if you are a perfectionist you are guaranteed to be a loser in whatever you do." ("Feeling Good" Pg. 353)

I think the concept here is that if you look objectively at what can be done it is truly limitless, and can never be reached... This is called seeking perfection

As opposed to if you view things Subjectively meaning that your limitations are a factor, and you realize that no one can be fully perfect. You can strive to do an excellent job based on a realistic goal...

BE BESIMCHA

BE HAPPY

BE TRUCKING!!!!!

B

trying123 wrote on 26 Feb 2010 14:46:


Aside from the fact that I feel no chiyuv to agree with david burns, he did hit the nail on the head - we're not talking about perfection in this world, in this universe. We're talking about perfection in the true reality, the spiritual one.

I don't expect to perfect today. But the job that I'm doing today, I know I can do perfectly. Yes, perfectly. That doesn't mean that if it was an olympic event, I'd get all 10s - it means that I did the job completely. We can all aspire to that, and we can all reach it.

Ultimately, though, Reb Bard is right - let's be b'simcha!

silentbattle wrote on 26 Feb 2010 19:56:


Dear R' SilentBattle,

First, didn't mean to get you (or anyone) down, and for that I am sorry. We're all waging the same battle, let's stay united...

Second, All I wanted to point out is that to do something for the fulfillment of being able to feel that it was done perfectly (as opposed to feeling fulfilled from the act itself; not conditional on it being done perfectly ) can for some people (for others not) be a very bad approach. Because there is nothing that after close examination couldn't have been done better in some way. In addition, we would be discrediting all the imperfect work (which is very valuable in it's own right). Also the pressure involved in needing to be perfect makes the whole thing difficult. And for more reasons see the links I posted above...

The way I see it, Hashem wants to see us working not accomplishing. Lo Olecha Hamlacha Ligmor... 7up gave a great Moshul for this http://rehab-my-site.com/guardureyes/forum/index.php?topic=574.15 we don't have to move the rock we gotta P.U.S.H. the rock....
We are not Angles, No human has ever been perfectly perfect.

I do think that we should strive to do an excellent job on the realistic goals we set for ourselves. And it is in fact possible...

Listen, no matter what, I respect you and have gained from all your Chizuk...

Have a great Shabbos...