I remember learning that there are many different types
of demaot. Ashan? Good ones too. These feel good. Thank you.

TahorV...





  You are feeling better about yourself because being here, is taking you out of the isolation that this addiction feeds on. This isolation, and hermetic secrecy is the life force of this disease. It is the protection device for this disease to keep us in it's control, and falling.




These tears of wanting to return to Hashem. Of regretting where you have been, of wanting,and needing the closeness to Hashem that we are all meant to have...these are tears of life. Keep them flowing, and they will also heal your eyes from all of the things they have seen.

If you have any left over, please send them over here.

I'm glad you feel less alone - that's a major help in these struggles...

Let us know what's happening!

By the way, I'm only "on this forum" for a few weeks myself.  So my comments aren't the educated ones of folks who understand addiction, 12-steps, empirical evidence, or anything else. I'm sure you'll hear from them, too.

For me, what I'm finding most powerful has almost nothing to do with 'slips & falls' as the euphemism here goes.  It has to do with finding a relationship with Hashem that allows for me, in my current state, to restructure that relationship as far as I'm able to do, and then giving the rest over to Him, one day at a time. Once that foundation goes in place, I think the sexual work will be so much clearer and easier.

I'm not speaking for anyone else, but in my case I need to focus on what I want to INJECT into this work, this relationship, this sexual content. I do NOT need to harp on what I need to REJECT / EJECT from my life.  If I can focus on growing my dveikus, there's basically no room left for chet. But if I tell myself ever hour, "I will not think about elephants; I will not think about elephants, elephants are bad and sinful," I know exactly what I'll be thinking about.

So it's not about sex or halacha or tears of guilt; it's really about rebuilding a chunk of my life onto a base built with tears of joy. (And it's also not about a guilt trip: perhaps H' needed you to go through all these painful hoops just to end up here, where you needed to be. His plans are perfect. B'H you're now here.)

If there's any common ground here between you and me, it's that you're finding those tears of joy within your own life.  Wherever you find them, I'd suggest you consider those areas first as the foundation of your new house. Maybe this new house be a bayit ne'eman b'yisrael and binyan adei ad, built of a strong foundation.

Just remembered...Demaot shel Perot. Fruitful tears....Sharing them....I remember a drash on Parshat Shoftim.  Something about how the Shotrim are the organs-how we perceive the world...Especially the eyes. If they are pure,then the Shoftim have less to do! The outer gates are protected. And some tears heal the outer Shoter.  
I like this stuff. Just wish I could remember it at the right time. How do you guys do it?  Get yourself to really know what to do in that tiny split second when you know you are vulnerable and it is a Bechira point and you know that too and you slip anyhow? Or not.  The time is so tiny and if you are used to being on automatic pilot,stimulus and response( a half second street scene or memory in the head-doesn't have to be a movie or internet)I so often just slip.  And a half second becomes a 2 hour binge. And then the sadness over the time waste and Chillul Hashem and all the rest.  Help please!
Tvn.

Thanks Briut. I like the idea of filling up the time and not focusing on ejecting the Tamei.  I still struggle with that little moment that sneaks up and takes me by surprise. Do you find that the filling up helps in those moments for you?  Tvn

that's like asking a stewardess how they cook all those meals for every person on the plane. The answer? They're all prepared beforehand. OK, that's not a good example, because those meals aren't very good :-)

Seriously, though - you've just an important point, I think. If I waited till the test was right in front of me, I'd be toast. And not the good kind. The key, i think, is to figure out when and how tests come up, and why. And then deal with all of those.

Why? I identify which issues are leading me to have these issues, and i try to address them. To a certain extent, even just the realization of what's pulling me can help.

When and how - I realize what triggers me, what leads up to it, which roads take me to temptation, and I try to get off those roads as soon as possible. I set up plans in my head before the temptation comes. the plans can be calling a friend, going to GYE, or even just getting up and walking away from the computer - I review these plans in my mind until it's a natural response.

   Reb tahorV......The most successful warriors on this site are the one's who "don't know what to do, and especially in that split second".

What I mean is:  The more we "Know" that we DON'T KNOW what to do, we then learn to lean, and trust on Hashem's BIG WIDE shoulders...so to speak. Because we found out, then when we thought that we knew something, we kept trying, new, and more innovative, cutting edge, high tech tachbolos and.....none of them worked!!!! So, we then fell into despair, depression, anxiety attacks, and all of the rest of the Y"H tricks.

  We found out that by going straight to Hashem, and letting him fight for us...we have a chance. Of course this does not negate our making cheshbon hanefeshes, to see what we must keep away from, so that we don't all of sudden find ourselves in the abiss.

 Stay here Tahor, and you will understand better.

TahorVneeman wrote on 10 Feb 2010 17:24:

Well, I don't take the same approach of silent battle (recent post). Different people, different methods.

But if I'm spending time in good parenting, or hanging around the B"M / shiurim / whatever, or even in exercise, music, etc, there's not much room left for the Y'H or his shmutz.  And, most important -- learning to be a good husband (yet another plug for The Garden of Peace by R' Abush, translated R' Lazer Brody -- it completely completely transformed the way I look at marriage relationships, and for the better ).

So for me, being prepared doesn't focus on a response to the Y'H (actually a non-response - any kind of dialogue simply energizes his arguments when I'm trying to starve them to death).  Prepaid responses are a good bag of tricks to carry in case of emergency. But if I can think of "Hashem knows I'm better than 'that' and He's just sending this Y'H down so I'll remind myself of that today," then maybe I can avoid the issue in the first place.  

I'm not doing a very good job of it lately: a couple of situations in particular are difficult (PM me for details if you like; it's not so tznius). But when I find my tears, I find something real to keep me going.

Don't know if this rambling post has any content at all, but just writing it down made me feel like things are getting a little clearer.  Hope it means something to you.  Keep posting.   - Briut

Agreed - Everyone should use what works for them.

However, just to point out, I wasn't just talking about pre-programmed responses, i was also talking about recognizing beforehand where the dangers are, and avoiding them entirely, whenever possible. Do you disagree with that?

So, you're saying it's like the man who goes to the doctor; says "it hurts when I do this (and shows doc the offending movement)." Doc says, "SO STOP DOING THAT!

I am good with that approach. It just doesn't compare to "ok, Tatty, if You want me to be here, You're gonna hafta fix it so I survive joyfully!"

I lean more to Briut's approach because in the past my twisted thinking went something like this. "Ok Hashem I can't do this I have to rely on You"  No real change in temptation or behavior leading me to conclude "well I guess He doesn't care either I might as well act out!" How's that for brilliant reasoning!  Oy.
I have had some success with preparedness.But not enough. I yearn for a break,for cleanliness. I just want to be normal!!I just want to be able to Daven again with real Kavannah and not feel as if a cloud is hanging over me.  So much to learn but I am starting. I just wish GYE and you guys had been around years ago.
Thanks again...TvN

Tahor,
Welcome home. You mentioned a few posts ago about being a member of the Chevrah.

Not isolating and becoming a part of a group is the main way to get sober and recover
from this addiction.  Ideally that means a live SA or SLAA group in your city.  We also
have phone groups that meet 3 nights a week for members of the forum.  You and none
of us can do this alone.  You can make it easier on yourself by staying off the computer
for 2 weeks.  Just don't turn it on.  I did it for a month.  And I work on the computer.
But I had to reprogram my brain and the only way was to be free of it.  My wife answered
my emails and we made it.  Get a filter, get a sponsor, figure out what it is that is
driving you to avoid fear, anger, loneliness, boredom. 

Never give up.  There is hope and a bright future ahead in recovery and sobriety.
Keep coming back one day at a time.

Elya

Or like saying, "when i walk down the street with rusty nails, my feet hurt."

The hard thing to figure out sometimes is which streets have rusty nails.

The reason I'm not such a fan of Briut wrote on 10 Feb 2010 20:21:


Is because that sounds like an ultimatum. We're setting the terms for what we'll do for god. And it sounds like Reb BVN's tried that, and it doesn't work for him for precisely that reason.

silentbattle wrote on 10 Feb 2010 23:15:


Yeh, and see what Dov answered joeshmoe reply #159 on this page.