hi! all.
I have a question tow all of u.
I started my journey with lots of success. was already clean for about two months until this huge challenge came along.
I started to feel that my smoking affects me vary bad (as I was more tuned in to myself) and I decided to quit. so far i am very successful at it and i didnt smoke for about 20 days. but in the same time it is very hard for me to battle two urges at once and in the last week while successfully not smoking i had two major falls in the p&m erea.
I am very confused what would be the write thing for me to do? should I give up my hard work of 20 days quiting smoke because it stands in the way of my gurney in kedushe, or not?
would love to hear any ideas.

Hello Crispy, I am probably not the best person to respond first.  But I see you are online and I don't want you to feel disheartened.

In the Flight to Freedom program one of the lessons deals with this, and I frankly agree with the statement.  You should indeed focus on overcoming your sexual desires first, and if that means putting your smoking problem on hold, so be it.  Modern poskim have ruled that it is okay to smoke, because if they didn't it would cause a large portion of the populace to sin uncontrollably.  They ruled the opposite with regard to watching television.

This should speak to the severity of these lustful cravings.  It is of my personal opinion, you should allow yourself to resort to smoking, until you have been free of lustful thoughts and actions for a significant amount of time.

And if you get to a point where you have been free for a year, and still receive cravings when trying to give up smoking, then give it even more time.  Smoking is not nearly as harmful to you as your other habit.  Also, a gurney is very very far from a journey, that is the grammar error I deem worthy of commenting over.

Hatzlocho, and Yasher Koach!

crispy wrote on 24 Aug 2023 15:21:

Welcome!
Anything I write, even if it seems to be directed at you, is not, it is a general rule and style of word.
I believe you’re a making a critical mistake that we all make/made. We try to be “dry drunks”, to stop the behavior without changing ourselves. (It’s very hard to actually change and not just stop bad behavior.) The two are absolutely related in that they are each addictive behaviors. Wether or not you are addicted is irrelevant, the actions are a way of life that needs to be changed not actions that need to be changed. In order for you to properly change, try looking at your life in general and changing, not in specific actions and stopping them. 
best of luck!

WhackAMole

relgrzb wrote on 24 Aug 2023 16:17:

thanx for your words. first of all yes my speling is bad.
but to the point: it could be that you are right but its not so simple it means giving up hard work of over 2 weeks over coming cravings which i now feel basicaly free from it. I hope hashem should lighten up my eyes I should be able to know what is the right thing.

Again, I am not the wisest of people, and I cannot give you sage wisdom that is be all end all.  My profile currently lists -1 karma (though I don't know why)

It sounds to me that your cravings for smoking are not as strong as before.  If possible, I would say you should continue not smoking, and also continue your battle of P&M.  Now that your smoking is manageable, you can hopefully catch your second wind with P&M.

But I want to stress, I think your focus should be on overcoming P&M.  Continue being free of smoking, but if that causes you to increase in stress to the point where you are about to have a fall in P&M, it is better for you to have a smoke.

But as Shmira alluded to, it would likely help to work on yourself, your motivations, and strategies for dealing with withdrawal.  I think you should sign up for the partner program, as that would give you someone to talk to when you are feeling overcome.

But again, I am new to giving advice on this kind of thing, so it's best you explore the options on this site to get the advice that speaks most to you.

after having a few urges that i b''h past the test (a pity that i didnt write about it, maybe it would help) I had a massive fall back last night while also having a little bit of a crave to nicotine. i would start back to smoke already had i known that this really has a connection. but i am suspecting that this is just from my side. wow! the human brain is so complicated to fully understand. hashem! pls open my eyes to know what's the truth here! and what is the right thing for me to do.

In my experience, and I don’t know if the same applies to everyone, many small urges can build up throughout the day, to the point where they can hit you very hard, almost without warning.  

I was able to get past this by developing a close connection with Hashem, but often times I would play an engaging video game, or get up and converse with people to remove myself from a very bad urge.

It would seem that each person might find their own strategy through trial and error, and love of their Creator.  Find something that prevents you from acting on your urges by removing the powerful thoughts.  This could be talking with people, taking a walk, eating a hearty meal, playing a game, or anything in between.

But the most important thing, is to not give up!
A Tzaddik falls seven times and continues to rise.  I know it is said quite often on this site, but it is simply the truth.  

When I was struggling, and falling everyday, I said to Hashem, ‘Baruch Hashem, for everything is good.  My giving in to desire today was simply a small hiccup, because I WILL overcome this addiction.  It may take my a day, it may take me 100 years, but even if I have to lose everything in the process, I WILL overcome P&M.  So in this moment, where I have resigned myself to Teshuva, let me be close with You.’

Indeed, there is a story in Gemara.  Rav Yochanan went in to visit someone who was afflicted, and asked him, ‘Is your affliction dear to you?  The Rabbi responded, ‘I don’t want it, nor it’s reward!’  And Rav Yochanan placed his hand upon him and removed his affliction.  For one cannot get out of jail on his own.

May Hashem illuminate your path to freedom.

thank u relgrzb your words are a real chizuk for me! the idea that i have an anonymous jewish person that cares about be without judging and wants to give me strenth is a huge chizuk.
last night i overcame and was strong even though i had urges of a level that i couldnt overcome in the past. and i am very proud of my self but i wana share a thought that helped me, because it might help somone in a similar situation.

b''h hashem gave me this idea to use my smoking thing as a motivation instead of a setback. meaning to say: i am clean now for over a month from smoking and i feel phisically much better. and if i will fall again with p&m i know that the right thing for me is to start smoking again because it would be eseaer. and this is something i really dont want. therefore i most be strong.
i dont dont know if somebody would connect with this idea its a little bit a twisted cheshbon. but if it helped me it might as well help someone else so i am sharing it.

thnx! again relgrzb for your inspiration.

b''h last night was another win!
and even though i am only at a 2 day strike i feel really empowered. because i went through a whole new level of urges that i didnt have in my first month of my  gurney and i was still strong.
may hashem give the strenth to keep up.

crispy wrote on 29 Aug 2023 17:49:

You are on a roll. Beware of the YH. He will try to knock you down, say its not worth it, put you in a terrible mood, say your growth doesnt mean anything etc. Pure nonsense. 

b''h tonight was a little trigger, but just a little one. and another clean night went by.
I value every day as a separate thing because its too hard me to think of having this battle forever.

I personally find going in to what triggers me and facing those emotions, to be very helpfull. because when u face an emotion it gets more easy then when u deny it. i saw somewhear on GYE a saying: the first step of geting where u wanna get, is to know where u are. its a good one but for me its also knowing and facing the sad stuff the emotions that trigger u to be where u are.

hashem should give me the koach to keep go one day at atime.

Chazak Ve'ematz!

The fight gets easier the longer you go, as though the Y''H loses its strength.

But as Bright alluded to, the Y''H will try to knock you down.

At a point along my journey, I became overjoyed at having a week free of desires I had thought to be insurmountable.  When I thought I was finally free, the Y''H struck in full force.  As it is said in Pirkei Avos, 'Do not believe in yourself until the day you die'.

Keep building yourself up, in your connection to Hashem and those around you, in your defenses against the strategic brilliance of the Y''H, keep an eye open so as not to stumble, and Be'ezrat Hashem, may your holy march against evil will be sustained for all your days!

umein veumein!!!
thank u so much relgrzb and bright for keeping me in reality. i am sure it will come a day (i hope not soon) when it will save me.
and a huge thanx! for people that give from their valueble time to give chizuck for a yid that they don't know who he is.
mee keamchu yisroel!!

I hope that one day i will also feel strong enough to be mechazeck others.