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TOPIC: I am abt to start fighting 1024 Views

Re: I am abt to start fighting 13 Jul 2023 22:11 #398764

  • cordnoy
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chaimoigen wrote on 13 Jul 2023 21:26:
I am ambivalent about sharing personal thoughts on the topic of why a person shouldn't want to act out. A lecture from me isn't likely to help change someone's desire. An explanation about why you ought to want to stop will only be that, an explanation, not a want. You have to desire it yourself, truly.
And a person needs to be brutally honest with himself to know in his own heart of hearts what is the problem and what is the solution. If a person is using P and M and a solution to deal with pain and anxiety, or other issues, a Drosho won't help, because the behavior serves a purpose that he wants, at least in certain situations.... 

I just will make two points here. Neither involves Ruchniyos [purposefully and uncharacteristically].

1. Masturbation almost never happens without fantasizing. Perhaps this point isn't always focused upon.
​A person maybe could think about it this way: What are the effects of me pouring my spirit and investing my mind, wasting my heartrate, energy, my deep feelings, imagination and daydreams, hormones etc etc into a fantasy universe? How does that affect my living space, my persona, my mind and spirit? How does it numb the higher, more subtle elevated parts of who I am....

2. I want to share a post from the Great [Mostly Missing In Action] Ish MiGrodna, one of my heroes. Food for thought.

For some weird reason, I've been "living with this vort" over the past few days. It has been posted in several places (and it reminds me to embrace the pain like a champion - rather than feel sorry for myself : )

Here it goes....

From former world heavyweight champion boxer David Haye on the topic of sperm retention:

Find a lion that hasn’t had some food for a while, and you’ve got one dangerous cat. I don’t ejaculate for 6 weeks before a fight. No sex, no masturbation, no nothing. It releases too much tension. It releases a lot of minerals and nutrients that your body needs, and it releases them cheaply. Releasing weakens the knees and your legs. Find a lion that hasn’t had some food for a while, and you’ve got a dangerous cat. So there won’t bet a drip from me. Even in my sleep — if there are girls all over me in my dream, I say to them, ‘I’ve got a fight next week, I can’t do anything. I can’t do it.’ That’s control. I’ve been doing that since I was fifteen and its part and parcel of my preparation now. That’s why I am who I am today — it’s down to all those little sacrifices. Find me another boxer who makes that sacrifice, and you’ll find another champion.

Gadlus baby!!

Chachma bagoyim in Grodno ~ IMG



Regardin' one sentence in your first point: "How does it numb the higher, more subtle elevated parts of who I am." - That's precisely what fantasy is all about.

Regardin' your second point, look here: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/376777-What-time-is-the-Zman-to-fast-out#378982

There are many arguments against masturbation; let's pick those that hold up in a court of law please.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
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MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: I am abt to start fighting 13 Jul 2023 23:04 #398768

  • yitz23
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chaimoigen wrote on 13 Jul 2023 21:26:
I just will make two points here. Neither involves Ruchniyos [purposefully and uncharacteristically].

Yayyyy!!!!

(Kidding.)

Great post!

Every hand's a winner
and every hand's a loser
And the best that you can hope for
is to die in your sleep
                      -Kenny Rogers, The Gambler

Re: I am abt to start fighting 14 Jul 2023 01:19 #398778

  • chaimoigen
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cordnoy wrote on 13 Jul 2023 22:11:

chaimoigen wrote on 13 Jul 2023 21:26:
I am ambivalent about sharing personal thoughts on the topic of why a person shouldn't want to act out. A lecture from me isn't likely to help change someone's desire. An explanation about why you ought to want to stop will only be that, an explanation, not a want. You have to desire it yourself, truly.
And a person needs to be brutally honest with himself to know in his own heart of hearts what is the problem and what is the solution. If a person is using P and M and a solution to deal with pain and anxiety, or other issues, a Drosho won't help, because the behavior serves a purpose that he wants, at least in certain situations.... 

I just will make two points here. Neither involves Ruchniyos [purposefully and uncharacteristically].

1. Masturbation almost never happens without fantasizing. Perhaps this point isn't always focused upon.
​A person maybe could think about it this way: What are the effects of me pouring my spirit and investing my mind, wasting my heartrate, energy, my deep feelings, imagination and daydreams, hormones etc etc into a fantasy universe? How does that affect my living space, my persona, my mind and spirit? How does it numb the higher, more subtle elevated parts of who I am....

2. I want to share a post from the Great [Mostly Missing In Action] Ish MiGrodna, one of my heroes. Food for thought.

For some weird reason, I've been "living with this vort" over the past few days. It has been posted in several places (and it reminds me to embrace the pain like a champion - rather than feel sorry for myself : )

Here it goes....

From former world heavyweight champion boxer David Haye on the topic of sperm retention:

Find a lion that hasn’t had some food for a while, and you’ve got one dangerous cat. I don’t ejaculate for 6 weeks before a fight. No sex, no masturbation, no nothing. It releases too much tension. It releases a lot of minerals and nutrients that your body needs, and it releases them cheaply. Releasing weakens the knees and your legs. Find a lion that hasn’t had some food for a while, and you’ve got a dangerous cat. So there won’t bet a drip from me. Even in my sleep — if there are girls all over me in my dream, I say to them, ‘I’ve got a fight next week, I can’t do anything. I can’t do it.’ That’s control. I’ve been doing that since I was fifteen and its part and parcel of my preparation now. That’s why I am who I am today — it’s down to all those little sacrifices. Find me another boxer who makes that sacrifice, and you’ll find another champion.

Gadlus baby!!

Chachma bagoyim in Grodno ~ IMG



Regardin' one sentence in your first point: "How does it numb the higher, more subtle elevated parts of who I am." - That's precisely what fantasy is all about.

Regardin' your second point, look here: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/376777-What-time-is-the-Zman-to-fast-out#378982

There are many arguments against masturbation; let's pick those that hold up in a court of law please.

I’ll be honest. I regretted adding the second point after I submitted it, because it’s unprovable, as you say, and for other reasons.
I was looking for an illustration to expand the first idea in a tangible and thought-provoking way, and it’s an arresting quote.
What I am trying to say, can be better said thus:
Taking the fact that it’s all about living in fantasy further. Looking past the aspect of terrible spiritual destructiveness of masturbation (which is tangible in some way to almost everyone), there’s a basic human point.
Wasting all that is energetic and creative, hopeful and imaginative, and a lot of what’s passionately powerful about you in a way that merely flushes it down the toilet with vanishing, empty disillusionment-  this diminishes you. It weakens you as a person, in the here and now - in so many basic ways. Is that a guy you would would want to share a secret with or ask his opinion about a real life decision??? 

Many more cogent arguments against masturbation have been written and are available on this site. I wanted to share this single perspective because it means a lot to me, 
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com

Re: I am abt to start fighting 14 Jul 2023 01:54 #398781

  • cordnoy
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Chaim, can you explain the point please in different words? I didn't understand it from your last post. Thank you
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: I am abt to start fighting 14 Jul 2023 02:13 #398783

  • richtig
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chaimoigen wrote on 14 Jul 2023 01:19:

cordnoy wrote on 13 Jul 2023 22:11:

chaimoigen wrote on 13 Jul 2023 21:26:
I am ambivalent about sharing personal thoughts on the topic of why a person shouldn't want to act out. A lecture from me isn't likely to help change someone's desire. An explanation about why you ought to want to stop will only be that, an explanation, not a want. You have to desire it yourself, truly.
And a person needs to be brutally honest with himself to know in his own heart of hearts what is the problem and what is the solution. If a person is using P and M and a solution to deal with pain and anxiety, or other issues, a Drosho won't help, because the behavior serves a purpose that he wants, at least in certain situations.... 

I just will make two points here. Neither involves Ruchniyos [purposefully and uncharacteristically].

1. Masturbation almost never happens without fantasizing. Perhaps this point isn't always focused upon.
​A person maybe could think about it this way: What are the effects of me pouring my spirit and investing my mind, wasting my heartrate, energy, my deep feelings, imagination and daydreams, hormones etc etc into a fantasy universe? How does that affect my living space, my persona, my mind and spirit? How does it numb the higher, more subtle elevated parts of who I am....

2. I want to share a post from the Great [Mostly Missing In Action] Ish MiGrodna, one of my heroes. Food for thought.

For some weird reason, I've been "living with this vort" over the past few days. It has been posted in several places (and it reminds me to embrace the pain like a champion - rather than feel sorry for myself : )

Here it goes....

From former world heavyweight champion boxer David Haye on the topic of sperm retention:

Find a lion that hasn’t had some food for a while, and you’ve got one dangerous cat. I don’t ejaculate for 6 weeks before a fight. No sex, no masturbation, no nothing. It releases too much tension. It releases a lot of minerals and nutrients that your body needs, and it releases them cheaply. Releasing weakens the knees and your legs. Find a lion that hasn’t had some food for a while, and you’ve got a dangerous cat. So there won’t bet a drip from me. Even in my sleep — if there are girls all over me in my dream, I say to them, ‘I’ve got a fight next week, I can’t do anything. I can’t do it.’ That’s control. I’ve been doing that since I was fifteen and its part and parcel of my preparation now. That’s why I am who I am today — it’s down to all those little sacrifices. Find me another boxer who makes that sacrifice, and you’ll find another champion.

Gadlus baby!!

Chachma bagoyim in Grodno ~ IMG



Regardin' one sentence in your first point: "How does it numb the higher, more subtle elevated parts of who I am." - That's precisely what fantasy is all about.

Regardin' your second point, look here: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/376777-What-time-is-the-Zman-to-fast-out#378982

There are many arguments against masturbation; let's pick those that hold up in a court of law please.

I’ll be honest. I regretted adding the second point after I submitted it, because it’s unprovable, as you say, and for other reasons.
I was looking for an illustration to expand the first idea in a tangible and thought-provoking way, and it’s an arresting quote.
What I am trying to say, can be better said thus:
Taking the fact that it’s all about living in fantasy further. Looking past the aspect of terrible spiritual destructiveness of masturbation (which is tangible in some way to almost everyone), there’s a basic human point.
Wasting all that is energetic and creative, hopeful and imaginative, and a lot of what’s passionately powerful about you in a way that merely flushes it down the toilet with vanishing, empty disillusionment-  this diminishes you. It weakens you as a person, in the here and now - in so many basic ways. Is that a guy you would would want to share a secret with or ask his opinion about a real life decision??? 

Many more cogent arguments against masturbation have been written and are available on this site. I wanted to share this single perspective because it means a lot to me, 

I've often thought about this in terms of the wrestler said. Perhaps a bit different, but a caged lion has so much energy to let out, and someone in the throws of tayva has a similar kind of energy. We would easily understand that if he went to the gym he could do a longer, more intense workout, or if he would go the beis medrash he could devour blatt after blatt. We do not have to limit ourselves to arguments against masturbation that would hold up in a court of law; we can advance arguments that would hold up in the court of an individual person, and launch them to the heights of humanity.
Thank you for sharing!
"It is not our abilities that show who we truly are, it is our choices.” ---- Albus Dumbeldore (as per Chris Columbus)

Re: I am abt to start fighting 14 Jul 2023 11:55 #398795

  • chaimoigen
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cordnoy wrote on 14 Jul 2023 01:54:
Chaim, can you explain the point please in different words? I didn't understand it from your last post. Thank you

I started responding and before I knew it, it grew into a whole lecture. So i will spare the folks here and send it to you via PM. (Anyone else who wants to see it should PM me).  
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com

Re: I am abt to start fighting 16 Jul 2023 08:09 #398845

Hey, thx every1 for the chizuk, support tips- keep em coming! Thx to u guys im almost 3 days clean which is the longest ive gone in a while....kol tuv

Re: I am abt to start fighting 16 Jul 2023 16:27 #398871

  • yitz23
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Three days that's awesome!!!

Let's do this!

Every hand's a winner
and every hand's a loser
And the best that you can hope for
is to die in your sleep
                      -Kenny Rogers, The Gambler

Re: I am abt to start fighting 20 Jul 2023 17:40 #399031

Hey all, bh i am currently 7 days clean!!! This is the longest ive ever gone since i started masturbation. Thanks to all u guys and gye!

Interestingly, ive noticed the hardest struggle is not when i see something that turns me on and i have a desire to masturbate. To those urges its easier to distract and move on. The real struggle has been stress. In hindsight it seems that masturbation used to b my stress reliever. Does any1 have any etzuh for a good stress reliever?

Re: I am abt to start fighting 21 Jul 2023 11:59 #399039

  • chaimoigen
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hihello123 wrote on 20 Jul 2023 17:40:
Hey all, bh i am currently 7 days clean!!! This is the longest ive ever gone since i started masturbation. Thanks to all u guys and gye!

Interestingly, ive noticed the hardest struggle is not when i see something that turns me on and i have a desire to masturbate. To those urges its easier to distract and move on. The real struggle has been stress. In hindsight it seems that masturbation used to b my stress reliever. Does any1 have any etzuh for a good stress reliever?

For me: Exercise. or taking a walk, especially with a friend, works for me. Depending on the walk, it may also be exercise.

This realization is a tremendous key to success, my friend. There are patterns. elements in our that cause us to go looking for trouble as a solution that we have unfortunately learned... Realizing why I sometimes want what I shouldn't is a huge step to figuring out how to make change. 

You're awesome! Stick around, stay on this path.
Walking with you is making my day a lot better. 
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com
Last Edit: 21 Jul 2023 12:00 by chaimoigen.

Re: I am abt to start fighting 21 Jul 2023 16:20 #399049

  • yitzchokm
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"The real struggle has been stress. In hindsight it seems that masturbation used to be my stress reliever. Does any1 have any etzuh for a good stress reliever?" 
I don't know how to copy and quote so I did it this way.

I have found STOP to work for minor stress related urges, and urge surfing and SOBER to work for powerful ones. They can all be found in the GYE toolbox.
Last Edit: 27 Jul 2023 02:14 by yitzchokm.

Re: I am abt to start fighting 21 Jul 2023 18:07 #399052

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Physical exercise and connecting with other people are good.
Last Edit: 27 Jul 2023 19:44 by yitzchokm.

Re: I am abt to start fighting 21 Jul 2023 18:24 #399053

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Depending on the circumstances sometimes dealing with the stressors themselves when there is no urge may also be useful.
Last Edit: 27 Jul 2023 02:21 by yitzchokm.

Re: I am abt to start fighting 25 Jul 2023 01:47 #399145

  • bright
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hihello123 wrote on 20 Jul 2023 17:40:
Hey all, bh i am currently 7 days clean!!! This is the longest ive ever gone since i started masturbation. Thanks to all u guys and gye!

Interestingly, ive noticed the hardest struggle is not when i see something that turns me on and i have a desire to masturbate. To those urges its easier to distract and move on. The real struggle has been stress. In hindsight it seems that masturbation used to b my stress reliever. Does any1 have any etzuh for a good stress reliever?

Try exercise.
Nothing good grows in the dark. 
Last Edit: 25 Jul 2023 01:47 by bright.
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