Shmuel wrote on 16 Nov 2022 11:37:

I believe even "it" (whatever 'it' is) can go away (unlike diabetes). "It," however, can also come back (just like it entered in the first place).

DavidT wrote on 16 Nov 2022 17:59:

I'm sorry, I disagree with your assessment. Answerin' yes to #2 may be somewhat of an indicator (but not by itself), but one who is in a rut of habitually doin' bad stuff may respond yes to #1,3 & 4 as well. The books have lists of 20 questions. (In the past, I have replies yes to about 16/17 of 'em.)

I’m really confused and actually a little scared…. Am i addicted or not ?? and if ya is it bad? Scary? Can I live a normal life even being an addict with going to sa?!
who can I call that will conform for me my status?

Brother, you raise a good point but I think you’re mixing medical diagnosis with religion.

For example to consider a health problem “Using porn/masturbation more than intended or using it for longer than you’re meant to” - is likely referring to someone that masturbates 2-3 times a day. Whereas once / twice a week would not meet the criteria. Same goes for many other criteria. 

On the other hand we are religious Jews, so masturbating twice a month is sacrilegious. But don’t confuse it with the DSM mental health criteria…

So I beg to disagree with your conclusion that “I post this post because I think that a lot of people don't want to call this battle what it is: ADDICTION. What percentage of people on this site meet at least the 6 criteria I bolded above? Probably a very high percentage.”

cordnoy wrote on 16 Nov 2022 19:29:

Rabbi Twerski wrote that there are a number of ways to define addiction. If you have a desire to do something, and know you shouldn't be doing it but go on to do it anyway, that indicates a loss of control. When this is repetitive, it justifies being considered an addiction.

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Geshmak! wrote on 16 Nov 2022 05:44:

ill tell you my personal opinion. There are 2 ways to deal with anything in life. Top down- goal oriented. Or bottom up-addressing root causes.  We need both. We all need and should start off with bottom up-root causes approaches, because they help us more long term, because we are actually getting to understand the feelings causing us to do our behaviors. Once we address the feelings we can begin to heal them and no longer need our behaviors anymore that were coming to compensate for those feelings.   We also need top down-goal oriented solutions, because the healing prosses for feelings is long and not always possible. Sometimes it gets worse. Sometimes we don't even know who to call. Because of this, we need solutions to help us in the short term to help us curb those behaviors, even though we aren't addressing the feelings causing them. Depending on the severity of the behaviors, the more or less important it will be to address the behaviors top down-goal oriented ,while still addressing bottom up-root causing too.     Think of it as a leak in your ceiling. There are 2 ways to deal with it. Get a bucket to catch the drops. Or fix the leak. Just getting a bucket, wont fix the leak. You will have to continue emptying and refilling the bucket every day, buying new buckets and their will be a constant annoyance of water over-spilling the bucket, money to buy a new bucket, strain on your arms carrying The bucket etc. 

At the same time, just fixing the leak without getting a bucket, will cause your floor to get all wet while your trying to fix the leak. And sometimes leaks take years to fix! Sometimes they never get fixed! And most times we don't know how long they will take to fix. So we need a bucket too, even if we are trying to fix the leak.

The leak in our mashal is your challenges. The bucket is your solutions.  your bucket used to be porn. You are trying to change that. Instead healthy buckets would be prescribed medications, therapy, journaling, exercise cooking, and a whole bunch of other things.   The leak would be the feelings causing you to want to watch porn, or causing you to need a different coping technique without porn.

That being said, SA is like the bucket. It is a very good bucket. It helps a lot with of day to day goals, mainly staying sober, but in addition, it helps socially, emotionally, and gives purpose to life. It helps build confidence and a whole bunch of other things. Its benefits are immeasurable. Anyone who goes can tell you that. I personally do not so I cant give you first hand info. 

But you should keep in mind that it will not take away the cause of your behaviors. Only fixing the leak in therapy will help for that.

cordnoy wrote on 17 Nov 2022 20:57:

And what is the cause of your behaviors associated with greed, anger, jealousy, hatred, insecurity, impulsive, controllin', ego-driven, bad tempered, stubborn, perfectionist, manipulative, self-centered, compulsive, apathetic, etc?

Insecurity because god created you in insecure human? perfectionist because god created you perfectionist? Self centered because god created you narcissist? manipulative because god created you manipulative? Apathetic because god created you apathetic?   Even people who were created with one drive stronger then the rest, an emotionally healthy person can manage his day to day imperfections. If we can't for whatever reason its time for us to......See a therapist to figure out why we cant control our behaviors associated with greed, anger, jealousy, hatred, insecurity, impulsive, controllin', ego-driven, bad tempered, stubborn, perfectionist, manipulative, self-centered, compulsive, apathetic, etc.;

If we want to we can also definitely and should definitely go to a 12 steps program for the necessary support, encouragement, moral boost, connection, help, validation, confidence boost, energy boost, social help, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc  we can get. BUT in my experience. (and yes I understand other peoples experiences can be different) we will not get to the ROOT feelings causing our actions. Or even if we do get to the root feelings causing our actions, we will not get to the root cause of what is causing him to feel hopeless controlling himself from acting.

DISCLAIMER. ONCE AGAIN MUST BE STATED THIS IS MY ERSONAL EXPIERENCE. I UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY IF OTHERS HAVE DIFFERENT EXPIERENCES.

ersonaly, I have never gone to a 12 steps program. I have checked out many websites, read many books on it and have friends that go. Never have i found that there are therapists in the group helping people get to the root feelings causing their behaviors. But please tell me if I'm wrong. If I'm wrong and their are therapists at 12 steps meetings then I'm sorry!  (The information i got was that 12 step programs were fellowships)