DavidT wrote on 14 Mar 2021 19:35:

i have to admit i only joined here a week and a half ago and i've seen tremendous siyatta deshemaya(did i spell that right) in the area of parnassah. out of the blue my wife got a big raise and i got more customers so i guess you have a point.   i also just want some clarification on what you quoted from R Yisrael Salanter what do you mean by dimyon? the beauty is very real(i know this is probably a dumb question but please explain)   thank you so much

Mount whitney wrote on 14 Mar 2021 18:29:

I love how you put down exactly what I struggle with and what I thing many others do as well (just hate to admit it). I relate to this a lot. I wrote about it a little a while back, but I hesitate to spell it out like you because "its so wrong." Of course, I still struggle with it, so it's doesn't really help me and I am glad you were able to speak it out so clearly. I could have written those words exactly, but I don't want to "tarnish my reputation" ha ha!!!

I think Cordnoy hit the nail on the head and Sapy said good things. I think many of us struggle with this in one way or another, friends, neighbors, sister-in-laws etc. it's rough, I would love to offer a quick fix but there is none.

That being said, I have worked on this a lot and I have found a few things very helpful. In my case, it was and is most beneficial to work from outside and from inside. Meaning, taking away the false allure that a prettier woman will make you happier and more satisfied while at the same tome working on increasing your love for your actual wife. I don't mean to sound like a broken record but this is really the crux of the issue, the thought process that if only I had HER, I would be satisfied. I needed to take a closer look at what my goals are in this world (for real). If my only goal was to have the prettiest wife, I would be failing miserably, and being that my wife wasn't changing anytime soon, I figured that I need to change my goals. When the only thing that mattered in my marriage was how my wife looks and dresses, I was in trouble. I don't need to look for trouble, trouble follows me. Pretty sister-in-laws who really can dress up, friends wives and wives friends who, where I live, spend loads of time together.

So after I figure out how to pop the bubble of all these awesome gals whose husband must never have a miserable moment in their lives (after all, they actually have HER) the next step is to work on loving what I do have. 

A random tidbit, a good friend of mine, whose wife is "waaaay prettier and cuter than mine" is always complaining to me about her. Not about her looks, I am sure he thinks she is beautiful, but about everything else. She is OCD about how their house looks, she is always busy, he can never make her happy, etc. The more he tells me, the more I am able to appreciate what I have. I am not saying that every pretty woman is a snobby brat, what I am saying is that none of them are your wife, and they cannot provide you what your wife actually can.

Rav Dessler explains that one of the ways to build love is through gratitude. Recognizing and seeing the good in someone and appreciating them for what they offer and not just for what you expect to receive from them. Build something within your own marriage and it will act like a fortifying wall. I cannot say that you will never see a prettier woman again but it really changes the whole dynamic. Make a gratitude list, focus on your wife's ma'alos and what she has that no one else does. 

Another thing I tried is that when I find myself lusting someone, I channel this "need for connection" to my wife. So if I am out shopping, I would look for something small to bring home to my wife (like a bar of chocolate) and then I can think about how it feels to make her happy. I found this to be very meaningful in building my relationship with my wife, as well as a way to stop focusing on someone else.

in summary, I get what you are going through, it's a process, one which I am still in the middle of and certain events, even in the kollel circles, just don't make this any easier. I wish I could tell these kollel wives that a Yeshiva event is not a fashion shoot, but at the end of the day, I can't tell them to drop dead. At the end of the day, it's our issue and it's us who needs to fix it. Yes, when planning events we can probably be more mindful of separating men and women more effectively but until then, its on us.

I hope this made some sense.

Keep shteiging!
Wilnevergiveup

 thank you so much for your advice. what i appreciate most about your answer is that it is not a textbook answer rather it is a practical answer. i always say textbook answers don't work for me because i am not a textbook. 

had a pretty rotten miserable got nothing done day i wanted to act out 47 times but i stayed clean thanks to all u (btw the gettogether is tommorrow pray for me!!)

all right we had the party (how come all the food in lakewood tastes the same?) no mechitza (what the heck?) but bh i stayed clean faced the other way and kept my eyes to myself. i just wanted to post what helped me in my situation. basically i thought to myself how looking at others gets me nowhere it just reconfirms the fact that my wife is not as pretty as others which gets me unsatisfied and unhappy, so why look ? true not looking doesnt make my wife prettier but guess what bud looking doesnt either! all it does is flood my mind with feelings of unhappiness. i definitely have a lot to work on appreciating her and building a deep emotional connection but untill i get there looking ain't gonna help me at all. that's what i feel let me know what u think thanks. 

all right we had the party (how come all the food in lakewood tastes the same?) no mechitza (what the heck?) but bh i stayed clean faced the other way and kept my eyes to myself. i just wanted to post what helped me in my situation. basically i thought to myself how looking at others gets me nowhere it just reconfirms the fact that my wife is not as pretty as others which gets me unsatisfied and unhappy, so why look ? true not looking doesnt make my wife prettier but guess what bud looking doesnt either! all it does is flood my mind with feelings of unhappiness. i definitely have a lot to work on appreciating her and building a deep emotional connection but untill i get there looking ain't gonna help me at all. that's what i feel let me know what u think thanks.
 Definitely a great start! It must have taken much strength on your part to do that. Just think,chances are there is another guy at the same event working to control himself not to look at your wife....The grass is always greener on the other side.

By the way,why in the world did your night Kollel make a mixed event with no mechitzah?? What is missing from this story?

Oh and  I respectfully disagree with you regarding Lakewood's gastronomical delights.

In addition to all the wonderful things said before, I want to just add a practical but. I know some have the mingag for the room to be pitch black, for some that really doesn't work.

But possibly having the room mostly dark may help mask some imperfections. In fact I think (although I'm not really sure where it's from) that is the talmuds reason not to be intimate during the day.

Hakolhevel wrote on 18 Mar 2021 05:25:

This isn't in the BB section so I am not sure if this is the place for this but the reason brought down for not during the day is actually so that you won't hear voices from outside and think about someone else. Also connected. 

I recently watched a interview with Rav Manis Freidman here on GYE gye.vids.io/videos/a49ddfbd1314e8c12c/the-joy-of-intimacy that was a real eye opener. It's very intense and I don't understand half the things he says, but it's fascinating to hear his approach and I gained a lot from it including a new perspective and understanding. 

This brings me to something that is relevant, if you hear a shiur or read something and it just doesn't resonate, it doesn't mean the whole thing is a waste. There can still be something to take out. This talk is amazing, perhaps not for everyone, but even if you don't take it all the way, at least consider what he says and think about it. Take a look at what you can improve instead of throwing the whole thing away.

Anyway, enjoy the video, let me know what you think.

All the best,
Wilnevergiveup

wilnevergiveup wrote on 18 Mar 2021 06:37:

In general the direction this thread took it should probably end up in the BB section. Regardless, that's why I kept my post very clean.

Either way Rabbi google found the source for what I said is Rav Chisda Nida 17:A. The web also found a explanation of his opinion which really fits with what I said. Boruch Shekivanti
ובספר הרב ביאר את דברי רב חסדא, שאין הכוונה שיראה מום מסויים ואשתו תתגנה עליו, אלא שאם משמשים באור, במשך הזמן הסוד והיופי הפנימי והנשגב של החיבור בין איש לאשתו עלול להתפוגג, כי הוא נעשה מוגבל ותלוי במראה החיצוני, ויש חשש שאולי עקב כך אשתו של אדם תתגנה עליו. ומעין זה כתב בדרכי טהרה כב, יג: "ואין הכוונה דוקא מום או כיעור בגופה, אלא יש לחוש שעצם הגילוי יביאנו לזלזל בה".

In regards to taking out the parts you agree with, that is so apprapo. Especially when it comes to intimacy, I have some issues with Rabbi Manis, but he also has some stuff he says about intimacy I really like. So ditto on that.

Lou wrote on 18 Mar 2021 04:58:

it wasnt mixed seating  seperate tables and all that, just no mechitza i was pretty shocked myself

Hakolhevel wrote on 18 Mar 2021 05:25:

i've tried this in the past. problem is my memory is better than that of a goldfish so no matter how dark it is i still know who i am sleeping with and how she looks( i hope its ok to post this here i'm a new guy dont really know the rules) what i feel has helped me a little is realizing relations are not just about attraction its also about love i could elaborate but i'm nervous i will get in trouble but u probably get where i am going

Mount whitney wrote on 18 Mar 2021 20:24:

If your worried, maybe start an additional thread on the BB section.

cordnoy wrote on 14 Mar 2021 19:59:

Today by מזמור לתודה, as I was saying ולו אנחנו, this post came to my head... was a great chizzuk especially for a day after a fall...

hi everyone i joined a little over 2 weeks ago for the first little while i truly felt a difference both in my control and in satisfaction with my wife. however although i am still clean, i feel the satisfaction is waning and not going to hold up in real life. i took the fam out to the pizza store(nice guy no?) and although i was careful not to look i still noticed how others dress...within a min i was back to square one in regards to being satisfied and everything else people spoke about like its all very nice and idealistic but not so practical, can anyone relate to this?     also i have this feeling that 'im lo achshav emosai' ya know kind of like i dont see myself getting this anytime soon so i gotta stare/fantasize...cuz otherwise when will i get even a sampling of this ,now i realize thats straight up yetzer hara talk but i dont really have a good counterattack to him any ideas would really help me out thanks

Very much relate to your im lo achshav aimasai idea - only thing I can say is that it gets easier over time and if you follow the im lo achshav aimasai idea then you will never be free