YeshivaGuy wrote on 23 Dec 2022 06:59:

Starting a petition to have YeshivaGuy change his name to "YeshivaWarrior." Should be self-explanatory.

YG, your resilience here is incredible. Yosef Hatzaddik is beaming with Nachas in Shamayim. Keep fighting, and know that we-and more importantly, Hashem-are with you every step of the way.

FWF

YeshivaGuy wrote on 23 Dec 2022 06:59:

YeshivaGuyNo No No No No! This is not about perfection! We think you are strong (like incredibly strong) for fighting the fight. For battling. For getting up and pushing through every day despite the trauma inside. The fact that you get up in the morning just to fight and work through another day is so strong of you. This is not about the days and nights, streaks and levels. This is about the direction we are heading in. You seem to be out there every day heading forward, even though you path takes you over steep inclines and deep cliffs. Even though you have a backpack that has pounds and pounds of rocks in it making every step so much harder. Cramps, leg pain, dehydration, loneliness, broken bones, migraines... yet you get get up every day either way to continue you way forward. You are so strong. yes even tonight. 

@YG-you are an inspiration. Recent events in my personal life-of which you are aware-have made me recognize that to an even greater degree. 
טוב ארך אפיים מגבור ומושל ברוחו מלוכד עיר
By that metric you're a monster of a man. Keep it up bro...
I love you!
OE

Dear YG, after all that went on on that crazy night, your emotional roller coaster, you reached out, you stayed back because you felt it was right, you had such heartache later, you even fell, but then you did NOT follow the path that the YH had undoubtedly charted for you from the beginning of the night, and on that same night you stood up to a massive nisayon, and actually deleted the contact that he had so badly wanted you to have...and you say it was not a holy night? I beg to differ. I don't like posting dvar Torahs on the forum, but it is just too good to skip. In slonim, I believe, they say a vort that the reason why Yosef hatzaddik is considered the ultimate 'עומד בניסיון' is because the nature of all people is that when the YH is on fire, our urges on on full throttle, and we fall even a little bit, to stop there and not fall further is almost impossible, it is excruciatingly difficult. Yosef lost ten drops, he was young, energetic, and everything in him screamed, "just do it, you fell today anyway, tomorrow you'll start your next streak", but Yosef did not listen to that voice, he stopped in the middle of a fall, picked himself up, and walked out. Someone who can stop, while he's falling, and not let himself be convinced to just enjoy tonight, that's the greatest warrior against the YH that exists. My friend, that describes exactly what you've done. I beg to differ, my friend, and I rest my case. Keep trucking! And keep making us all very proud!

Went to an old Rebbi of mine today for chizuk/eitza in navigating a situation (working before marriage) and how to convey it to a shidduch.

Instead was the most invalidating, unhelpful, and condescending conversation I could’ve possibly have had.
He didn’t mean for it to be, he spoke in a nice way, just so out of touch and off the mark.

He said to do certain things since people will judge me and I’ll have a hard time to which I responded that well if I’m doing the ratzon Hashem (as deduced from introspection and consultation with rebbium) then I have nothing to fear. And he said “well you have way more bitachon than me,” to which I responded in my mind “I know!!”
Really very surprising. Not someone who’s דומה למלאך ה׳ צבאות, will stay with my current rebbium.

Makes me appreciate real manhigim like my Rebbi from Yeshiva who I’m close to.

Gut Nacht

YeshivaGuy wrote on 06 Jan 2023 05:08:

i have had conversations with rebbeim that rubbed old wounds... took work to figure out why i was so miserable from those conversations.  Noone is perfect.  BH you have current rebbeim that are more sensitive to you.

sleepy wrote on 06 Jan 2023 16:11:

Dear Rav Sleepy, i ask as a friend and with love, what is your "mehalech?"  Has it worked for you? Because it seems that your mehalech doesn't work for 99% of the guys here, especially @yishivaguy as he clearly states. Hashem is perfect he doesn't need science to back us up, and he doesn't "disagree" with science either. He is perfect. If something works or doesn't work doesn't depend on what a specific rebbi that i had 14 years ago said or not. It depends on whether Hashem decided it should work or not work.  If it works to get him closer to Hashem then that's what Hashem wants. Hashem doesn't want us to do things that bring us farther away from Hashem even if a rebbi we once had tells us that its the right thing to do.

I'm curios to know your mehalech and how its helped you.

sleepy wrote on 06 Jan 2023 16:11:

So I’m not clear whether you’re complimenting me or passively (aggressively?) trying to make a point.
If you are, please explain because I’d like to learn.
Either way please clarify, thanks.

And I try to have Bitachon, yes.
And I have spent much time going over Shaar HaBitachon bh, though not as recently as I should.

As far as what would’ve happened if my Rebbi would’ve told me to remain learning full time- that’s what I preferred doing. Obviously I would’ve remained in Yeshiva.
It was my Rebbi who told me that the Ratzon Hashem was for me to leave at that time.

Again I’m unsure exactly what you were getting at, please explain without any games or riddles. Thanks!!

sleepy wrote on 15 Jan 2023 07:12:

No not at all. Your doing great. Keep it up. And it seems that many of us are growing by leaps and bounds! I have a streak of 121 days and 58 days. Bh im growing. TYH

What I am asking you is, it seems that you are hell-bent to look at what it says in the Torah/rabbanim/sefarim as your guide. Now that is a wonderful idea, that is what we are all doing.   Where we go different, is in our approach to what it says in our Torah/rabbanim/seforim.

It seems pretty clear to me, that many of the things that helped previous generations grow and get closer to Hashem, --for example speeches about 'hell and brimstones'-- no longer help us grow close to Hashem, (for the vast vast majority).  For an example, reading Rabbienu Yona again and again about the gehenim we get when we do such and such aviera.  That may have worked fir generations of the past. But its quite clear, that that doesn't help the vast majority of our generation. The opposite. Its quite clear, it heightens anxiety and knocks down the self worth of most of us that use a previous generations approach.   And that is why, even if a rebbe suggests something from a previous approach, its not bad at all to approach a different rebbe that will suggest a more 2022 type of approach that wont hurt him.  

Thank g-d my rebbe is in 2022, but unfortunately, many are not. That being said, there is no mitzva to listen to a rebbe that wants to use an approach that doesn't work in this generation. A rebbe who tells me to "just have more bitachon" will not be someone i ever ask a hashkafic question to, simply because he's giving me advice that doesn't work for 2022.   It seems though, that you believe we should listen to a rebbe that gives us such advice, even if it doesnt help us, but instead brings us farther from Hashem. As in the case of @yishivaguy

I personally am having a very hard time following either position in this conversation, starting from sleepy's original post. I think YG also wasn't sure what sleepy meant and being as the post was directed at him I think it would be helpful to clarify. Thank you!

hashemyeracheim613 wrote on 16 Jan 2023 04:03:

Online, tone of voice and inflections are totally missing so it’s possible to totally miss the point. I believe Sleepy misunderstood YeshivaGuys message of that Rebbi who gave him no support and Bitachon was not the right message at that time!

Sleepy and YG, what do you think?

sleepy wrote on 16 Jan 2023 21:47:

Howdy,
I’m waiting as well for your carefully worded post and hope physical copies of the book will be available as well. 
Goes without saying that I expect a signed copy.
But ya, I’d appreciate an explanation since I’m curious how your initial response works with what you’re hinting to here.

Either way, I’d like to clarify what I meant by “having bitachon” and the circumstance in which it was was being invoked.
What I am doing now is what I need to do in order to progress both in my internal world of emotions, yidishkeit etc, as well as in my ability to be a functional member of society (i.e not in bed all day).

How do I know this?
I know to the extent I can know by engaging in self reflection, consultation with my close Rebbi as well as with my therapist.

That said, I remain human and therefore affected by societal expectations and judgements in which someone in my predicament would possibly struggle with shidduchim.
And regardless of the accuracy to the above observation, I remain entangled in a struggle to either do what society deems I should do or what I should actually be doing.

The strength to face doubt with courage is what I, in my post, called bitachon.
Now, one can argue that a better word would be self reliance, courage, self esteem and so on.
I chose the word Bitachon because I believe that since doing what I am doing (i.e not full time learning) is the only way for me to progress and grow forward, it is by extension, the will of GD.

Its relation to Bitachon is that I am doing GDs will, and though others (like that Rebbi) may look at me and say I’m messing myself over, I try to remain committed to what it is I’m meant to be doing now and trust that Hashem will lead me on the path I am meant to own.

Now, one may argue that what I profess is not true Bitachon in Hashem but rather more of a belief in myself and in my own decisions.
I certainly agree to that and personally think in my case that the two are intertwined.

I hope this was clarifying for @Sleepy and the chevra. As said, I truly do await to learn what it is you have been trying to convey to me.

With much appreciation,

YeshivaGuy

sleepy wrote on 17 Jan 2023 05:47:

Excellent question.
Thank You for bringing this important critique to light.

And remember, not just a copy.
I want a SIGNED copy with a personal inscription.

I hadn’t had much to do with this Rebbi for quite some time and I wasn’t going to him asking about his opinion on what I should do.
He had mentioned in a past conversation that he had done similar to me (i.e teaching) before dating and I was just hoping he’d provide basic chizuk and encouragement as I made clear to him.

He’s machshiv my Rebbi an an adam gadol, I wasn’t going to him seeking eitza but rather I expressly told him what I’m doing is al pi the eitza of my Rebbi and was just looking for someone to relate to me.
Instead he cut me down.

He was clearly projecting his own insecurities about his daughters not getting shidduchim as was evident from the conversation (he couldn’t stop bringing that up etc).

He was advocating conformity at the expense of my personal growth.

Even after I shared with him a little of what I’m going through and the journey and struggle it’s been to get myself back to getting out of bed in the morning, davening and learning.
He still was only concerned with shidduchim and completely disregarded the value of my growth and instead viewed it merely as an impediment to societal conformity.

We can call that a lack of Bitachon, we can call it Cowardice or whatever you’d like.
At the end of the day, however, the people I look up to and seek to emulate and follow in my life are those encouraging me to be courageous where others cower.
To ascend the “path less traveled” so long as it is the one I’m meant to own.
As for “textbook bitachon,” it’s not my place to judge him.
It was, however, evident that he was more concerned with societal expectations than he was my true needs.
Perhaps some would view that as “practical advice.”
I however, albeit influenced by the Rebbium who have helped shape my worldview, view it simply as “bad advice.”

I hope this cleared things up.
I too am alergic to “clergy bashing” and certainly see in retrospect how it seemed like I was being gaavadik.
Now, it could be you’ll read what I just wrote and still think that lol and perhaps to an extent it may unfortunately be true…
Good thing R’ Wolbe says not to work on gaava until someone’s 30!

Thanks again for picking up on this important point, and I anticipate hearing your response and any further critiques you may have, all of which I do appreciate.

YeshivaGuy

To be Dan lekaf zechus: Maybe like you said, he was under so much pressure from his own issues that he was not able to think clearly and put it aside.

You have no idea how hard that can be without being in that situation. I mean that it is less of an opinion that you should blend in because of hashkafa, rather a crucial need to be heedful of the public perception that may harmfully impact shiduchim. Like someone wrote: practical.

frank.lee wrote on 17 Jan 2023 23:56:

I see 2 different points in what you said.
I can accept the first, it’s just not the sign of a good Baal Eitza in my opinion.
My rebbium have always told me they don’t know or are unqualified if they felt they weren’t able to give me proper clear thought out eitza for my particular situation.

Your second part I completely disagree with.
Doing what is clearly not best for you and clearly not the ratzon Hashem in order to placate societal pressure is 100% antithetical to Torah values and basic morality.

Yes it’s hard, yes it’s painful, but I’d rather live my life outside “the box” than need to amputate all my limbs in order to fit the box’s parameters.

This again is where the discussion of Bitachon comes in…

Now, obviously you’re right to an extent.
There are societal norms which by one abiding to are their hishtadlus. So for someone to dress a certain way l’mashal, and say “that’s who I am” may not have a right to claim Bitachon but rather stubbornness and probably low self esteem.
There definitely is a role conformity plays in the life of the individual.

But when it comes to what is necessary to ensure your growth as a Jew and just as a human being, I see no room at all for compromise in the name of conformity.