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TOPIC: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 24742 Views

Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 15 Mar 2017 16:13 #308274

And by the way, what do you think tayva is?

And by the way, why is "actin' upon our desire" not a label, but "doin' somethin' because we are selfish" yes a label?

And by the way, why would bein' selfish cause depression, but recognizin' shortcomin's not?

I do apologize for my questions.

Firstly dont apologize :-) by all means :-D

It is interesting seeing others perspectives...

Reading GrowStrongs response It gives me more of an angle of where youre coming from...

in my mind there is a difference between falling to ones tayvas and being actively selfish - as in - the house is a mess but i am going to ignore household responsibilities and go play basketball for 3 hrs while my wife has to clean and watch the kids... to me thats an egregious display of selfishness... in contradistinction... i am actively trying to control my tayva but have a fall .... to play to that extreme ... yes if i recognize i have p and m issues and ignore them and follow my tayvas with no plan or care to change then yes that is selfish being that it effects me and my family greatly... 

Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 15 Mar 2017 16:26 #308276

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I am speaking here as an outsider, and certainly without any expertise, but just to say something that may be true, I'll let Cordnoy confirm or deny.

I think that RabbosMachshovos is making some good points but I think Cords is coming from a different place. He is coming from having worked the steps. (which I have not, as I stated that I'm an outsider, and this is just conjecture.) In his work he found that the underlying root of the problem is selfishness, although we don't necessarily identify that in the manifestation. He found that the remedy comes through working against selfishness. 

Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 15 Mar 2017 19:08 #308289

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RaabosMachshovos wrote on 15 Mar 2017 16:13:


And by the way, what do you think tayva is?

And by the way, why is "actin' upon our desire" not a label, but "doin' somethin' because we are selfish" yes a label?

And by the way, why would bein' selfish cause depression, but recognizin' shortcomin's not?

I do apologize for my questions.

Firstly dont apologize :-) by all means :-D

It is interesting seeing others perspectives...

Reading GrowStrongs response It gives me more of an angle of where youre coming from...

in my mind there is a difference between falling to ones tayvas and being actively selfish - as in - the house is a mess but i am going to ignore household responsibilities and go play basketball for 3 hrs while my wife has to clean and watch the kids... to me thats an egregious display of selfishness... in contradistinction... i am actively trying to control my tayva but have a fall .... to play to that extreme ... yes if i recognize i have p and m issues and ignore them and follow my tayvas with no plan or care to change then yes that is selfish being that it effects me and my family greatly... 

Of course there are levels of selfishness.

And yes, someone could do somethin' that is completely beyond his control.

But, it is important (and I think crucial) to concede that the act of masturbation (in contradistinction to the act of eatin') is inherently a selfish one.
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Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 16 Mar 2017 18:23 #308426

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how can something that so totally takes away ones sense of self (b'mkom shy"h  ain y"t) 
be selfish?
as per r" shimon shkop  that being present as a self hemshech of hkb"h and thru that incorporating others then it is definitely selfis
    acts themselves can't be categorized in any middah as no act takes place that is not a manifestation of machshava 
 but here you shut off machshava witch is the definition of selfish kn"l

like a bridge over troubled waters


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Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 16 Mar 2017 20:21 #308429

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ב"ה, פאר א מינוט האב איך גיטרחט אז איך בין אויף די אינגלש פאראם, און איך האב גיוואנדערט פאר וואס איך נישט פאשטנען קין אין ווארט ביז די אנדרער, און יעצט איך פאשטיי - אז איך בין אויף די אידיש פאראם און איך פאשטי ניט קין אידיש, און איך בעט אייך מחילה, אבער מיין רבי האט אלע מאל גיזאגט אז איך האב א פארשטעפט א קופ, אז דמאלץ האב איך נישט פארשטנען די למדישע ווארט פוסטד אבווו, און גידענק די היליגע בארשפע אז מיינער א רבי האט נישט גיוועסט וואט מיינער א קופ האט גישטופט מיט וואס

יישר כחך

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Last Edit: 16 Mar 2017 20:23 by trouble.

Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 16 Mar 2017 21:05 #308431

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איך בייט דער מדרייטר זאל וייזן דער ועג פאר דער פארבלאנזיטע מענטש צו די יידישע פרויען פארום

יישר כח
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Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 16 Mar 2017 21:22 #308433

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Markz wrote on 16 Mar 2017 21:05:

איך בייט דער מדרייטר זאל וייזן דער ועג פאר דער פארבלאנזיטע מענטש צו די יידישע פרויען פארום

יישר כח


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Yiddish, I don't.
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Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 16 Mar 2017 21:34 #308436

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cordnoy wrote on 16 Mar 2017 21:22:

Markz wrote on 16 Mar 2017 21:05:

איך בייט דער מדרייטר זאל וייזן דער ועג פאר דער פארבלאנזיטע מענטש צו די יידישע פרויען פארום

יישר כח


Sorry, women I know.....
Yiddish, I don't.

Right! And neither does Google translate


B"h, for a minute I gitrkht when I'm on the boy Param, and I walked to that I do not Vatanen jaw in word until the other, and now I bastion - that I'm on the toys Param I fashti not Qin toys, and i ask you forgiveness, but my teacher had always said that i have stopped a coupe that dmalts i have no forests the moral word vain abvu and guilds the holy barshfe that seems a teacher does not giveth watt Minor A coupe has stud with that



Fer vooos?
Last Edit: 16 Mar 2017 21:36 by GrowStrong.

Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 22 Mar 2017 02:08 #308771

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I  was thinking about this question today and I have some thoughts and questions.  On these forums, we always talk about lusting after women, including our wives and label that behavior as a bad thing.  Don't people, especially men, have natural lustful urges?  Why is that  bad and is there a difference between natural urges and a lustful feeling?  Aren't these urges something that can be used for good or evil?  If you lust after your wife and you have relations, isn't the lust a good thing if you satisfy her?  It's not just selfishness b/c you've used that urge to do good.  I'm curious what others have to say about this.  Of course, if you involve yourself in porn or you masturbate, you've used that urge for evil.  It's a very strong urge though, and difficult to resist esp. when you don't have a wife or your wife is unwilling or unable to have relations.  It takes strength to resist the urges in those cases.

Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 22 Mar 2017 02:29 #308773

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Why can't you satisfy her without lustin' after her?
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Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 22 Mar 2017 12:22 #308818

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I can, but that doesn't answer my questions.

Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 22 Mar 2017 13:10 #308822

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startrekuser wrote on 22 Mar 2017 12:22:
I can, but that doesn't answer my questions.

II think it does.

If you can satisfy her without lust, then it might be an indicator that your lust for her is really lust for yourself.
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Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 22 Mar 2017 20:33 #308867

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Meaning, you're using the lust selfishly.
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Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 23 Mar 2017 01:31 #308891

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Thank you for responding and trying to help.  Your answer doesn't yet answer my question.

Re: Is pornography and masturbation selfish? 23 Mar 2017 04:54 #308902

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startrekuser wrote on 23 Mar 2017 01:31:
Thank you for responding and trying to help.  Your answer doesn't yet answer my question.

My apologies.

B'hatzlachah
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