you write: addicts don't need SA; they need the 12 steps.
Then: the 12 steps must be done in a group.

cordnoy wrote:


They need a group. Not necessarily SA. What's shver?

I feel I've been derailed so I want to make my point again.

Oh, it seems you can only see results after you vote....

I feel that non-addicts calling themselves addicts can be damaging. I think it could potentially be used as denial (some people don't want to be a regular guy who just made a mistake, it's more comfortable to be 'powerless'), and it gives the real addicts here the wrong impression, making their recovery more difficult than it has to be.

Hello all,

I'm in my late 20s and have been masturbating since I was 12. By the time I found out it was wrong I was so used to it I couldn't stop. I saw lots of pornographic pictures online but wasn't addicted until I discovered pornographic videos. I tried hundreds of times to stop but when the inevitable fall happened I despaired of ever fully recovering. That changed about a year ago when I started really trying to stop and when I fell I got right back up.

However, I'm far from recovered. The longest I've gone is 40 days with no P or M. I found GYE a few weeks ago and joined last week. I think it's fantastic that we have a frum site on this. And, it's much better organised that goyishe equivalents.

So here I am trying to kick the habit of a lifetime for a lifetime. I'm interested in the 12 steps although I don't fully understand how they work. But here goes:

Hi, my name's Qi and I'm a porn addict. Porn has damaged my life considerably. It affected my school work when I stayed up till 2 am looking at it. It affected my learning when I needed to leave mid seder to M. It affected my shidduchim in a profound way. It made me depressed when shidduchim were hard. It affected my shteiging because nothing else matters compared to this. It affected my moods. It affected my relationship with my family. It affected my relationship with HKBH.

When I first found out it was wrong I still didn't know how bad it was. I'm ashamed to admit this but I actually masturbated on Yom Kippur once. HKBH please have mercy on me and forgive me.

SA, SAA, SLAA, AA, NA, OA, CA. OINK....?

Yes but R' Avrohom, picture this scenario:

You run a poll asking what works and most people say GYE is the main source of recovery.

Now a real addict comes on to GYE for the first time and sees that people say they recovered from their addiction on GYE. So he tries to do what they do. And it doesn't work. Year after year he keeps trying to do what those 'recovered addicts' did on GYE and he keeps falling flat on his face. And people keep telling him he's doing well, making progress. It never occurs to him that he is fundamentally different from the people he is getting advice from. Why would he?

Far fetched? It happened to me.

The problem as I see it is not that the addict came to GYE. That seems a logical first step towards recovery. But the fact that almost everyone here calls themselves an addict creates an incorrect impression of recovery. And so many people have come here, tried to recover from a real addiction using the wrong tools and then left disappointed, not knowing that there is a solution for him.

It's like starting a poll whether you eat cheese or not.

Then comes along a lactose intolerant.........

I don't understand why you judge qi to not be an addict. He doesn't say very much, and what he does say seems to point in the direction that he actually does have a problem.

Dr. Watson


Huh?

So a lactose intolerant person comes along.

So what?