Welcome Welcome
My 2 cents is see what works the best for you.

You can try therapy but if it does not work know that there are more stuff to try, And make a commitment that you will do all it takes to overcome your challenges, whether they are addictions or not.

Stick around and keep posting.

We are a little loud and overwhelming aren't we?

But then again that's exactly what a caring family does!

I would expect nothing less from a forum of this type. So it is now two days since the experience I posted about. I just want to clarify that this activity of which I wrote about occurs probably every two months or so. In between these times, I do not engage in ANY of this behavior, at all, period. I do not access internet porn, I do not spill seed, I do not eat traife at all. I do occasionally have a few lechaim's on Shabbos, perhaps twice a month tops, and not to excess.And even when I would drink on Shabbos, I do not involve myself in any unseemly activity on Shabbos, even in pure privacy. No sneaking on to the internet, no mecahllel Shabbos in private, Period. And I am not lying about that either. It is solely triggered by going to goyishe bars and drinking.

A little junior arm chair psychology. I am a baal teshuvah, probably like many of you. The experience I posted about was a regular way of life for me for in college and beyond, perhaps the first 27 or so years of my life. My Yetzer Hora tasted these many aveiros and once you taste them, they are hard to shake off.

For the majority of the people I know (gentiles and many non frum alike) this type of activity is both normal and very frequent, almost every weekend. It is not looked upon as immoral or abnormal or anything except going out "drinkin'"

I think I am subconciously trying to be "normal" again, and not frum. Like many baalei teshuvah, this lifestyle we have taken on is not easy. And it gets especially hard once the spiritual "high" has worn off and you are saddled with the realities of this lifestyle, including the tremendous financial stress, the communal garbage, the heavy heavy lifestyle and time restrictions etc. It can get stultifying. I think I am acting out in trying be "normal" again, like I "used" to be. Who the heck knows, I am just guessing. Either way, it is obviously not a good thing what I am doing to say the least, it is physically dangerous to me and possibly others, and if I was found out it would be devastating to many people in my family and community. So I must stop these "benders" every couple of months. That is the reality of the situation. I am not lying or misrepresenting the facts about my frequency of this activity. It is the same every time, the same bar, the same dance club, the same 24 hour diner. Someone's point about "recognition" in these places vs. in a support group AA or SA or similar is different. No one who knows me frequents these places, period. I am not worried about being seen. So, to summarize my thoughts, I think the "shvuah" concept above from "the.guard" is excellent advice. Day two of my first shvuah. B"H.

I do appreciate the concern from all you folks, I can really tell it is totally out of love and that many of you struggle or have struggles with issues as bad or worse than what I am going through.

I feel pretty positive today that I can beat this urge and fight it. But, I must be totally honest, and I am sure many of us can relate, there is a part of me that really really enjoys these activities and I will miss them greatly. THAT is the Yetzer Hora in spades. That is what I need to concentrate on exclusively, I think I can hopefully control the physical actions, but how in the HECK do you control your thoughts and desires so that you no longer crave these subversive and dangerous activities?

Maybe I am getting back to my denial phase as evidenced by this post. "I don't have a problem, I only do it every couple of months, otherwise I am in complete control, I have "issues" that lead me to do this..."

Denial is not just a river in Mitzrayim, ha ha .

Thoughts on controlling thoughts and desires vs. controlling actions?

ataglance12345,
Hey you have it so much harder then an FFB like me. My big deterent is how the heck do I go into a bar and mingle? I have no inkling about their pop culture and frankly don't know how to interact with girls in a casual way. You on the other hand know how to approach this smoothly and are comfortable with it. Your test is so much harder. I envy you because if I were you I'd never be able to hold back. You sound very strong.
Another thing I would say is of course don't fall. But you should know that if you do g-d forbid fall, you have still suceeded. The seforim say, if one holds himself back even once in his life time from temptaion he is already achieved great goals with hashem. Thus you should strive to never fall but know that ultimatley even if you just procastenated the fall its very special. And that may happen often in the begining of your struggle.

Exactly. Believe me, you are not missing anything. The world of the gentiles and the frei is absolutely filled to the brim with tumah. Period. End of story. Drugs, affairs,porn, crime, gambling, violence, divorce, you name it. The fact that it spills in to the Frum world is a tragedy, but it cannot be helped. Isn't this why the Jews are here, to show the world how to conquer the Yetzer Hora and live a tahor life.

Feel very happy that you are FFB. My thought is that for an FFB, whose sitrah achra has never tasted aveiros in bulk, has a much easier time fighting it. My Yetzer Hora indulged, and like any monster, it can never be satisfied once it gets a taste of sin .

True but you should know I am an FFB who grow up with a TV and porn magazines a sthe norm in my home. Believe it or not.And despite the fact that BH I have never physically done any of it I dream about it all the time. I apprecaite your encourgment but trust me its a real tough battle even for me, As a side note I dream about the classy goyim not so much the bums at a bar lokking for one nite swings. These are not crimefull violent drug addicts with loads of attaoes and piercings. These are much classier. But BH there are so many physical barriers that prevent it form getting much past the shmutz thought processes. (One of them that I am fat bald & jewish! LOL!)
But yes bottom line your nisayn is so much greater than mine. Thats why I say please don't measure success by if you achieved your total goals of never failng. Maybe hashem wants you to tsruggle with this your entire life and never completley win over that yetzer rather keep on giving him small punches and brush off the dirt when you fall. Don't get all down from it.

I can definitely relate to this nesoyin because I also didn't grow up frum. It is so true that I have a very easy time going into a bar and mingling with goyim. No doubt it's because of the way I grew up. What's worse too, is that so many goyish girls are attracted to me because of the fact that I seem so much more caring and moral than the typical goyish guy. The girls out there that I have shmoozed with have told me that they are so fed up with all the players out there and when they see that I am a sincere nice guy, they are really intrigued by that and they find it refreshing. They're words, not mine. I am struggling mightily right now because I just ended a 5 month affair I was having with a shiksa. She told me I was her best friend! I found it to be such a turn off when she told me that she has slept with 15 guys in her life. She's 28 years old. I never slept with her thank G-d. Just foreplay and some soft stuff. It's day 3 since I ended it with her. She only told me the number of guys she slept with recently and I'm using that as my motivation to stay away from her (I find it repulsive). Before she told me, I was totally infatuated with her. Now I realize she's not who I thought she was. I guess I was naive in thinking she had high moral standards. She came across that way, but now I realize that your typical goyish girls is loose and I'm trying to remember that and use it as motivation to stay the neck away from them.

Thank you aag, wd, and nate for your honest posts. Honesty is the lynchpin of recovery. Without it, everything falls apart. May you all find your individual paths to recovery and a better life.

"Maybe I am getting back to my denial phase as evidenced by this post. "I don't have a problem, I only do it every couple of months, otherwise I am in complete control, I have "issues" that lead me to do this..."


I guess you're in denial, because you just totally changed your story. Either that or your delusional or dishonest.

Hi 'ataglance12345', nice name. Thanks for sharing so much of your situation here, it probably helps you and others, as well.

Maslow said, "To the man who only has a hammer in his toolbox, all problems appear to be nails."

So as a man thank-G-d successfully recovering in SA, I can only say that you may be an addict, and that 12 step recovery [i]may [/] work for you. It is working beautifully for many I know, b"H, and may of them were far worse off than you seem to be, and some were not. Still, I don't and won't tell you that you need it...though you may. It'll always be up to you.

Another thing I can say is that you have opened up so much here on GYE, told us 'people' so much that you have hidden from everybody else. It's a great step forward for a secretly suffering person! But you say you would go to the bar without a bag over your head, but not to an AA or SA meeting. I have done much of what you describe, over and over again, as a married man...you only imply you are married but do not say straight out if you are...and am familiar with the horribly deep pain about such confusing behavior. It's a living hell - every month or so.

Alcoholics refer to a drunk who only gets actually drunk once in a while, a 'periodic'. It seems to be the worst hell of all, if you ask me. But like you so honestly put it, you love the exhilarating feelings of the whole thing: walking into the bar tingling with wonder about who you'll end up finding, the chase, making the magic flirting connection with no strings attached; being totally alone and hidden with a stranger who doesn't give a crap for you of course, but seems as excited about using you for the evening as you are about using her (or more)...and the rest is of course dictated like a script...'same routine' as you described it.

You refer to it as 'the Yetzer Hora'. Sounds religious. But the truth may be that you just like it. That the way you are, you just feel you absolutely need it right now. I remember not feeling as though I didn't need it first - yet ended up finding myself back on the hunt, or back in the porn trance and masturbation, or off cruising again. I'd like to suggest that calling it 'the Yetzer Hora' is just a tool to prevent you from accepting that these are your own choices you are making every other month or whatever. Yes, there may be yetzer hora involved here - but let's set the hocus-pocus aside for a minute here: However you slice it, you are not a well man. It is not mentally and psychologically congruent for a frum man (as you do believe you are) to be making these choices. And as an addict myself, I implore you: Please do not hide behind addiction, as though it were yet another magical force 'making you do it'. Enough with the excuses religious or otherwise: You are clearly not well. Please get real help.

Posting on an anonymous forum behind a fake name is something, but not enough. When I finally was ready to admit to myself I had serious problems, I went to a good therapist (and admitted everything in all the details to her) even though my wife would find out about it. I felt this would kill me if I did not stop.

Do you feel that way yet, or do you really feel you still have 'safer' options? I'd never have taken real steps myself if I felt I had 'safer' options, so I do not blame you if you do. Maybe sometimes you feel you do, and at other times that you do not. Maybe if you are posting here, you have had enough and are finally ready to get real help. Tell your wife or whoever, that you have anxiety you cannot explain - whatever. Is this an emergency, or not? Mine is for me, and that is why I got the help I needed and am clean one day at a time for over 18 years now, bH.

Huh? Aren't you being a little harsh here? Whaddya mean? Where did I change my story? On the contrary, I have been glaringly honest and have not withheld any of the gory details. I was clarifying my problem, not denying it. I just did not want to give the wrong impression that is happening every day or every week. I am not in denial at all. I have a real problem that puts me in danger in many ways. I just do not engage in this behavior every day or week. That does not mitigate its onerous nature or the fact that I need some sort of help or assistance to stop. Please explain your criticism, serenity.

Oh no, these are very much my conscious choice to engage in this behavior, and you are correct that I do like it, otherwise I would not be doing it. This is not the forum for a deep explanation or discussion of the Yetzer Hora, but I am not using him as an excuse for my actions, or even as an explanation, but only as a recognition that some force is driving me to this behavior. The Yezter Hora IS me, as much as the Yetzer Tov is.

What is "real help?" and your suggestion? I have the opportunity to meet with a LCSW through my work insurance, is that what you are talking about? Or deeper stuff, like seeing a psychiatrist or therapist that specializes in addiction therapy?

Concrete suggestions anyone? At this point I am not willing to go to a public meeting to discuss my problems and certainly not willing to reveal them to family.

BTW, I make NO excuses for my behaviors. I chose to do them. Period. End of story. They were fueled by alcohol, but I chose to go in to the bar knowing full well what I was intending to get into. Yes, I have certain chemical imbalances that have been officially diagnosed and have been treated professionally that may CONTRIBUTE to exacerbating the problem, but they are NOT the reason, they just make it a little harder to resist it. But, I have never revealed any of these activities or issues to any therapist or psychiatrist. Just too darn embarassing to do so. Do I need to find a specific addiction therapist and tell all? This forum is the first and only time I have ever admitted these activities to anyone!

Read the parts in red first pls.


I didn't mean to be harsh, that's why I put the whistling smiley. You said in your first post that "I have run out of any ability to stop the following behavior:" Then you later said you do have the ability to stop it for a couple months. Then in your first post "Last night I had a bacon cheeseburger, french fries, pancakes and steak and eggs". In the later you said "I do not eat traife at all." At first you said that slept with women and drank a ton of alcohol the you said you don't that.


I think the mistake I made is that you are talking about two different times. You have your acting out days that start with a drink and then the rest of time you are good for like 2 months. Is that it? Sorry, my bad. I can relate.

BTW, Three Admins commenting here! You must be a very special neshama.