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me 25 Dec 2013 01:36 #225549

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I have decided to call myself "Imperfection".
Many people around me seem to believe that I am near perfect. They do not know about this dark secret of mine.
On the other hand, this weakness of mine has brought to my attention that I am really very imperfect. With all the patience, tolerance kindness that I exhibit to others, I am really just suppressing the anger, hatred and selfishness boiling inside.

I thought that my main problem was internet. The GYE site has brought it home that I need to work on my whole self, and also that by working on the Lust problem then all my good Midos can be genuine.

It took a lot for me to join this forum. I have been receiving GYE mails for a number of months, getting Chizuk but still not breaking free.

55 days ago I had a breakthrough. I realised that I was totally incapable of beating this Lust, but that I could resist it, with Hashem's help, for ten minutes.

So that is what I did. Using the GYE concepts, I was then "clean" for 55 days.

The problem was, that I seemed to exchange one problem for another. Instead of looking at the internet, everything in the street seemed to be a trigger. Worse still, all the old fantasies came back with a vengeance.

Yesterday, I fell again. My Yetzer Horo convinced me that if I look at sites without images, then that is not "acting out"

In a way, I don't feel so unhappy. I was brushing these fantasies under the carpet, looking forward to declaring myself 90 days "clean" when I was not clean at all.

SO Hashem wants me to start counting again. But I am not at the same place as I was.

I do need some reassurance, though. The thoughts and impulses were getting incessant. Does it get easier after 90 days?

Re: me 25 Dec 2013 02:12 #225551

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WELCOME Imperfection! Hey, that's exactly what we need to do. We need to welcome imperfection instead of expecting perfection!

I can totally relate. You might want to check out the Dr Sorotzkin link in my signature. He has some really good stuff on perfectionism (audio and an article). It helped me a lot.

You are being vague on some points. What do you mean by "using GYE concepts"? What do you mean by acting out? How long have you had this problem, and what is the extent of the problem?

What tools have you tried? Have you told anyone about your problem?

Talk to us chaver. We are listening. We know what it's like. Open up a bit more.

Hatzlacha Rabbah on your journey. Many people have gotten on the road to recovery, you can too!

Re: me 25 Dec 2013 02:51 #225556

Imperfection wrote:
...I do need some reassurance, though. The thoughts and impulses were getting incessant. Does it get easier after 90 days?


Welcome to GYE,

There are different schools of thought about this 90 day thing (much has been written all over this forum). My own experience has been that, as our sages teach us, "the less you feed it the less you need it". So regardless of the number of days, it gets much easier if we don't feed our lustbuds. That means avoiding all sorts of triggering sights, however kosher they may seem (the tug at your heart will be your judge whether it's a trigger). It also means avoiding all sorts of triggering thoughts and fantasies, which can cause just as much damage. And while we free our minds from all that garbage, we may as well engage in some positive productive living. In other words, let's make believe and behave as if we are normal, and before long we will iy"H appreciate our new life.

Hatzlacha

MT

Re: me 25 Dec 2013 04:26 #225561

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Welcome to GYE!

I'm looking forward to getting to know you better!

Re: me 25 Dec 2013 18:08 #225578

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Welcome Imperfection!!!

That's a great name!! it indeed seems that you have been reading a lot of GYE!!

What is your story? we're all in the same boat here, don't be a stranger!!
Yankel | My Ladder | Talking to Hashem
I'm just a dude, another guy on this bus.
Have a great day, unless, of course, you made other plans. ~ obbormottel
"Nothing changes as long as everything stays the same" ~ Dov

Re: me 31 Dec 2013 22:22 #225874

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I very much appreciate everyone's kind replies.
The reason that I have not responded is that I do not always have private Internet access (which is just as well....) where I can feel comfortable to open up a GYE forum. ( A bit ironic, isn't it?? If my access is so limited, so how is it that I have messed up so often?)
I was pretty vague about my problem. It was quite an achievement for me to even register for the forum ( I backed out at the last minute a couple of times). I have never told anyone about my problem before!

I think that my story must me quite common.
As long as I can remember, I would look in magazines and newspapers lying around the house for any "interesting" pictures. I am not talking about pornography, but triggers and fantasy provoking pictures are plentifully found in the "respectable" Western media. This in time helped to create various fantasies and thoughts, which I would use for self stimulation and erections, although rarely Hz'l.
With time, as my Yiddishkeit strengthed, and I became more aware that all this was wrong, but I couldn't really stop it.
When the internet came along, I had another outlet. The first time I misused the internet was on that darkest of all days, עשרה בטבת. On the computer I was able to choose and search for "interesting" images, some of which I became obsessed with. None of these would be generally defined as pornography, (which by the way, I have always found disgusting to look at) This in turn would bring about more fantasies and obsessions, with occasional hz'l. I would use self stimulation to "unwind" or while revising for my college work, which I did not find very interesting. This was all while growing stronger in Torah learning and Mitzvo observance!
Eventually, after many battles, I decided that I had to "solve" the problem of my Yetzer by getting married. I found a wonderful girl, and we resolved to set up a Torahdik home, obviously without television, magazines, and internet. My "problem" did improve, but never really went away. If I would be alone in my parents' home, I would often "peek" at the old images, the old obsessive thoughts still came back, and deep down I still really wanted to see those immodest sights on the street.
So it went on for years. Several months could pass without illicit internet use, but when I would be alone with a computer even for a short time, I would stumble. At one point I would regularly have private internet access at work. This would happen at the worst time, exhausted in the middle of the night, when my defences would be at their lowest.

Eventually I decided that I could no longer fight, but just run away. So I gave up that job for another where I thought that I would not be alone. The trouble is that there too, I would "discover" ways to be alone. So I changed my place of work again, only to make the same "discovery". So guess what, I ran away again!
So in the next workplace, I no longer had an internet issue, but there significant immodesty around, which I always secretly hoped would come my way. So eventually I decided that this was not for me, so I started working ad hoc in an office where modesty would be preserved, making enquires in advance about internet access (I was assured that it was very powerfully limited, for professional sites only). So by now, you can guess what discovery I made next about the so called secure internet access!
After that, I changed work place again to be somewhere with minimum immodesty, even being careful how I travel in order to avoid improper sites while getting there. There too, I bumped into the internet again, sometimes taking big risks of being caught.

By then (last summer), I was really angry. What does Hashem want from me? I know that I cannot fight this Yetzer! So I do what the Gedolim have said, - avoid non secure internet at all costs! I lost count how many times I have run away from the internet! So why does Hashem keep on shoving it back in my face? Am I so bad?

One day, I had a ray of light, while in true darkness. I was busy looking at what I should not have been, sure that no-one was around. Eventually, I stopped, and literally a second later a curtain opened and somebody appeared. I was literally seconds away from being discovered, which would have caused me great embarrasment and Chilul Hashem. So may be Hashem did not hate me after all.

So I began thinking what Hashem did want from me. The GYE site helped me think that my true enemy was not lust at all. My true problems were my inner anger (almost always well controlled and suppressed), my ego, and my propensity for depression if things did not go as I planned. All my learning and avodah were not really for Hashem, they were for me.

All this was half a year ago. I continued to stumble, but I started to turn to Hashem in a different way. Instead of asking Hashem to give ME strength to fight me Yetzer, I would beg Hashem to save me, because I had no strength. I began to learn to nullify myself before Him.
After Yomin Noraim, I had a big lift, resolving never to let myself get depressed. I began to stumble again, and felt powerless. Then a thought came into my head (I think that it came from the GYE handbook). True, I cannot fight this, but can I not delay for ten minutes? I would even tell my Yetzer that in ten minutes, I would give in. This way, a would be doing my little puny effort, and Hashem would do the rest.
That day, I stumbled, but it was not the same. After that for fifty five days, I stayed clean, basically just by "delaying" my Yetzer. ( Well my Yezter lied to me so often, so why could I not get my own back?) Particularly poignant was עשרה בטבת, the anniversary of my first fall on the internet. Unexpectedly, I had private internet access, in the middle of night, exhausted. I snooped around, saw that there was no-one around, hesitated, and typed in "Yeshiva World News"! I came close to falling, but Hashem saved me. I was not safe, but there was a barrier between me and those images.
However, in these fifty five days, I was soft on mere thoughts, since these did not constitute "acting out". Eventually they got worse and worse, until eventually I broke, and my Yetzer tricked me into reading about all sorts of fantasies.

I felt really digusting after reading all this filth. I felt like such a low life. I felt like I was "A worm, not a man".
But I did not let this get me depressed as in the past. I realised that this was a precious moment. Just as Dovid Hamelech could say "I am a worm, not a man" he could say "I am prayer". So I prayed and nullified myself before Hashem as never before.
Of course, Hashem does not want us to be "worms". He created us "In a Divine Image". However, to reach this, we must bend down (as in Shmone Esrei), and "Hashem lifts up the bent". Then we shine, not from ourselves, but from Hashem. Tzadikim reach this throught contemplating the greatness of Hashem, and nullifying themselves before Him. We were shown do to this through our falls.
So I have started counting the ninety days again. This time I am trying to show Zero Tolerance to impure thoughts - for me they are like acting out. If one comes so I bite, pinch until it goes, and hum to myself "וטהר לבנו לעבדך באמת". Whichever way, I feel that I am in a much better position than before my fifty five days.

Some people may think that my problem is "minor". According to the standards of the depraved Western society, my behaviour is considered normal or even healthy. It has not obviously ruined my life. I am happily married, I love my children. I excel in work and in learning. However, for me this problem is like a dark cloud, making a mockery of all my so called spirituality. All of our Torah and Mitzvos are to make us into spiritual angelic but still human beings. So what is it all worth if deep down I am still longing for lust? So what if it is not pornography? As our Sages say, looking at a small finger for lust is like looking in the forbidden place! It is not what you look at, but what you are looking for!

So for me this is not a minor problem, but a very major one. In fact it is so major that this may be the reason that my soul was placed in this lowly world.

I was always told that we are in this world in order to perfect ourselves. May be this is true, but the only way that I can come close to this is to cling to Hashem in my state of Imperfection.

I know that I have written far too much for anyone to read. But at least I managed not to fall in the meantime!

Re: me 31 Dec 2013 22:40 #225875

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Imperfection
I know that I have written far too much for anyone to read. But at least I managed not to fall in the meantime!


I guess I'm a nobody! A nobody who can relate very much to some of what you've been through.

A great realization that you've come to is that it really doesn't matter what it is we're allowing ourselves to view or think, if it's for a purpose of lust, it's the same strength poison.

Hatzlacha!

Re: me 01 Jan 2014 00:32 #225893

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WOW!!

Amazing!! One of the first things I learned on this site was that my problem isn't nearly the porn, it is much more the constant lusting, at hime, in the streets, etc.

For me the answer has been accepting life, accepting that I have these thoughts, and being able to live real life even though my body may be urging some lust.

Have you spoken to anyone about your struggles?
Yankel | My Ladder | Talking to Hashem
I'm just a dude, another guy on this bus.
Have a great day, unless, of course, you made other plans. ~ obbormottel
"Nothing changes as long as everything stays the same" ~ Dov

Re: me 01 Jan 2014 00:48 #225896

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Hi,

Thanks for sharing. You expressed yourself very well and made some very good points.

Re: me 05 Jan 2014 19:32 #226069

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Thank you
No, I have NEVER spoken to anyone about these struggles, nor is there anyone with whom I would even imagine speaking about this with.
I suppose that I am somewhat introverted, and tend not to discuss personal matters with others.
I originally joined the forum just to ask a particular question about the ninety days concept, so writing about myself was just an aside! However, I do feel that writing made myself clearer about my own position.
To be honest, I am actually more comfortable and coherent in writing rather than in person.
I hope also that participating in the forum will give me a form of accountability.

Re: me 05 Jan 2014 20:19 #226073

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Imperfection
No, I have NEVER spoken to anyone about these struggles, nor is there anyone with whom I would even imagine speaking about this with.


We all understand your thinking,. to open up and actually start writing on the forums is hard, opening up to real people is much harder


I originally joined the forum just to ask a particular question about the ninety days concept, so writing about myself was just an aside! However, I do feel that writing made myself clearer about my own position.
To be honest, I am actually more comfortable and coherent in writing rather than in person.
I hope also that participating in the forum will give me a form of accountability


Opening up to fellow addicts face to face is often the only way we can stop.

As far as the 90 day thing, I have broken 90days several times, but still fell. After 90days is a little easier in some ways, but the lust never goes away. There are constant triggers, there is no way we can lock ourself's away which is why we have to stay clean just for today.

The most important thing is you have found the right place to share with others who understand, we all understand your struggle - because we all have the same problem.

welcome aboard

Re: me 05 Jan 2014 22:09 #226090

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Are you sure that I am an addict? On what level? DO we ALL need to be in SA groups?

I do not feel ready for that

Re: me 05 Jan 2014 22:16 #226092

  • canuckjew
Rationalizing doing a sin is probably one of the most effect methods used by the yetzer hara. I myself have fell in that trap many times. I would not watch porn for a while than I would feel like searching for "random" images to see what I would get. In some strange way I was trying to tell myself "if you enter these search words and still get racy images that it CAN'T be my fault". In the end though, like you quoted about seeing a finger in a forbidden place, it is your motivations on why you want do your action. If you google images for an apple to use in a school project and get porn obviously that is not your fault. However if you search terms like "adult" or "model" and get porn by "mistake" than of course you are to blame as why were you searching for those images? You know that you could encounter something provocative so why bother searching for it. Its like watching a woman's wrestling match "just for the sport". Yeah right!

Encountering inappropriate material is inevitable as there will always be a type of media or person to try to trigger you. Whether you live in a religious quarter in Israel or downtown Manhattan no place will be absolutely free of immortality. We just have to figure out how to deal with the problem when we encounter it. We can't keep running away from all the new technologies just because they can be used for bad purposes. They can be used for good as well! The internet is filled with information for Torah driven websites. Email has made communication much easier. T.V. can be great entertainment. We just need to utilize them in the proper way by installing filters, being extra cautious, or not having cable and only buying "kosher" movies. Obviously these are only suggestions but we don't have to live in a desert to make as avoid these problems. Best of luck!

Re: me 05 Jan 2014 23:33 #226099

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Canuckjew wrote in relevant part:

"Rationalizing doing a sin is probably one of the most effect methods used by the yetzer hara. I myself have fell in that trap many times....Encountering inappropriate material is inevitable as there will always be a type of media or person to try to trigger you. Whether you live in a religious quarter in Israel or downtown Manhattan no place will be absolutely free of immortality. We just have to figure out how to deal with the problem when we encounter it. We can't keep running away from all the new technologies just because they can be used for bad purposes. They can be used for good as well! The internet is filled with information for Torah driven websites. Email has made communication much easier. T.V. can be great entertainment. We just need to utilize them in the proper way by installing filters, being extra cautious, or not having cable and only buying "kosher" movies. Obviously these are only suggestions but we don't have to live in a desert to make as avoid these problems"

I would suggest that we all have to live in some sort of a cave and create whatever barriers work for us-if you have ever spent any time as a hospital patient, unless you are learning 24/7, you have no alternative but to channel surf between sports, and programs of very dubious content, with the "great entertainment", a decidedly very small percentage of what is available to watch. Ratings in both TV and the movies today are a joke, with both the studios , networks and free cable channels, pushing their respective moral enevlopes to keep up with the 100% pritzus on the premium cable networks.

Re: me 07 Jan 2014 00:57 #226200

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Imperfection wrote:
Thank you
No, I have NEVER spoken to anyone about these struggles, nor is there anyone with whom I would even imagine speaking about this with.
I suppose that I am somewhat introverted, and tend not to discuss personal matters with others.
I am also introverted and tend to isolate myself. Meeting people here, on the forum at first, then on the phone, and even some in person, has made the biggest impact on my recovery.

Yes, it was scary at first, but now I'm happy to speak to someone if they want.

Avoiding isolation is a BIG key to recovery (in my experience).
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