Hi!
i've been looking at this website/forums for a while, till i decided to become a member,
b"h my struggles are far easier now,
but i think that it would help me a lot if i have a solid explanation - one that will have an affect - why i'm really damaging myself if i M...,
I know its a terrible aveiro etc. but when i have a major attack i need some solid reason why im really damaging myself - a damage that i can really relate to - not some ruchniyus'dike thought.
and i dont think i'll hit rock bottom (like the stories on this website)...

thanks for all your help - in the past & in the future

dear friend, you said the answer yourself in the question by saying 'if i have a major attack'. well, why do you call it a major attack? because you know that it's bad on many levels.you want something you can relate to - so i'll tell you my idea - because the pleasure of being motze zera is addictive - it pulls you in to want more and more, until you become a slave to it.and the more you do it, the harder it is to get away from it.and the more and more you do it, it will not be enough for you anymore, and you will look for worse things to do.and the more and more and more you do it, it could lead to murder, jail, and your picture on the front page of the ny post.think i'm exaggerating? look at the newspapers every single day if you don't believe me.the post would LOVE to put your picture on the front page.
can you relate to that?
jack

p.s. on the other hand, if you're a real addict, this won't convince you either.in fact, nothing will.so what to do? do what you know is right without thinking of the reasons.

thanks,

i know (some what) that its wrong and destructive - in a ruchnis'dike sense, blocking my connection with hashem, etc. - but don't understand how it really damages me physically, i don't feel how a SINGLE act is damaging, its only bad (physically) because it "it pulls you in to want more and more" etc.
and since be"h i stopped running after it (pretty much), so once in a while isn't that terrible (in the physical sense) and i really don't think i'll end up on the front page, (i didn't end up there after x amount of years, and its hard not to do something now b/c in 20 years from now...)

also i find it hard when i just woke up, when i'm not so conscious about things, and before you know it...

i think that if i can understand and think a lot how damaging it is - physically - it will make it easier to control (and maybe lessen the desire)

(i feel that reading/thinking a lot about the bad side of it - when thinks are going good - helps a lot, since once i started reading through these forums etc. it really made it easier, walking down the street, at home etc.)

but as you said, sometimes thinking doesn't do the job.. then i'm really stuck.

once again, thank you very much for all your help!

i was right - it didn't convince you - but i love you anyway for coming here, and for just being a jew, and reb shlomole loved EVERYBODY - and i mean he didn't have it in his heart to hate anybody.

i'll tell you 2 things from among the hundred things my sponsor told me

1 - an addict never runs out of excuses to keep feeding his addiction

2 - why did you come to this site in the first place? isn't it because you want to stop?
well then, why are you still making excuses?
jack
and one more thing - you use the word 'IF' a lot. i also have an 'IF' - if my grandmother would have had wheels instead of feet, she would have been a motorcycle!

thanks for going heavy
my real issue is that a couple of days ago, i woke up and realized that it was to late, i didn't do it for months, nor did i look on the internet etc. during that day it was difficult when walking on the street etc, but i really worked not to look.

i thought that when (not "if" ) i realize the damage it causes, it would minimize the desire, and maybe that will help.

but please try to help.

I have a good reason for you.

When you masturbate you have to think about something that arouses you. Typically it's not an idyllic fantasy where you and your future wife are walking in a meadow holding hands, rather it's about you in charge and the lady being there just for your entertainment.

That is not how real women are. They have their own agenda. They have sex for selfish reasons, not to please you. All that stuff about romance and saying nice things is really because they need that in order to get aroused.

The women that act the way you like usually do it for money. There are some that are nice but they are usually not frum or not even Jewish because tznius is not conducive to giving your husband a wild ride in bed.

So basically these women only exist in your head and in the movies.

When you think about it over and over again you condition yourself to like that and to expect that, and when you get married your wife is going to see right through you. You don't even have to say a word.

Then - boom! You are going to wish you were still single. Imagine the embarrassment when your wife drags you in front of the rabbi because you are mean in bed and she feels used, and you ask her for disgusting lingerie and makeup. Or worse, divorce.

Your thoughts change you.

You also have an excellent halachic reason. There is a Gemara where there is a machloches between Abaye and Rava about whether you are allowed to hold your ever with only a rigid object, like a piece of wood, or even with a cloth. So you are running up against a rabbinic decree. So if you thought Hashem didn't really mind your masturbating, well, the chachamim mind. Would you carry stuff on Shabbos without an eruv?

Don't make the mistake of regretting your desires. Your desires are good. You are smart to want pleasurable things. But you are not smart if you act on it. The desire is good, the action bad.

Welcome to guard your eyes.

Wow, nederman! Deep stuff...
Thanks.

i thought over what jack said, and i must admit he's right,
if even once is ok, then it becomes twice and... then i'm finished.
and b"h now that i finally stopped for while, i really don't want to get stuck again.

i figure that i just need to cut out the excuses, and do a lot of thinking.

just to clarify, when you said:
nederman wrote on 21 Sep 2012 00:23:

does that mean that i shouldn't work on not desiring it, just to work on not doing?
if you dont mind please elaborate.

thanks

agav, b"h i'm not in such a bad matzav now - thanks to GYE, the Taphsic method, and i try to do a lot of learning B'Iyun, and learn/schmooze over the phone with a good friend on a regular basis, no internet at home or on my phone - it just that i constantly need to work on my Shemiras Einayim, or else i finished.
and thanks to GYE & Hashem's help, i'm finally under control (Lefi Erech), and happily married for over a year,
may hashem continue to help me and guard me (and my eyes).

I mean that the force of the desire is greatly magnified by what's at stake. If you believe that a person who likes sex less (not that does it less) is more worthwhile then you give power to your yetzer hara. A recovered person is a person who thinks as follows "I love sex and porn, but I am not pursuing it because the implications are incompatible with my goals, which I value more." The thinking of the addict (all subconscious) is "I love this porn, I condemn myself in the strongest terms for this unacceptable desire. I cannot withstand it unless I am forced to do so."

If you have been doing it for a while you probably also have a belief that you are powerless against this (because you watched yourself fall over and over again) and changing that is the first order of business. But that goes away pretty quick.

nederman wrote on 21 Sep 2012 00:23:


Nederman, that's truly profound. Thanks.

Thank you!!