All those who have chimed in thus far - I truly appreciate all the support.  I'm not just saying this, but you have all lifted my spirits and showed me how 1. I'm not alone; 2. I'm loved and appreciated; 3. There is hope :-)

You also all have very insightful comments - and picked up from my post a lot of nuances about me and my psyche.  I'm also pleasantly surprised at how insightful the people on this forum are (since I always thought, just like my addiction, that I was the only one ;-)

You lift our spirits too chabibi.  My only advice is to stick around and read and post.  There are a lot of good great people here.  Dov's stuff can take some time to digest, but I have found it to be the most helpful. 

Also, reach out to real people.  I can't do it alone.  It sounds like you can't either.  That's what makes this place so special.  We lift each other up, and we really understand each other in a way other's simply can't.

Ben492 wrote on 25 Nov 2011 06:02:


Ben,

Thanks for your advice.  I'm impressed at how perceptive you are.  You really picked up on quite a few things about me.  You're definitely right about a lot of things - namely that I have a serious perfectionism issue that is at the core of my problems, and that masturbation isn't really the chief problem.  A couple notes:

1. I am a perfectionist.  That, along with my need to fit in with everyone I meet, are my two chief personality characteristics that I have been trying to work on.  And I did deal a lot with that in therapy.  It was mildly successful, and I really think that my attitude has changed over the years.  So while you're correct that this new feeling I have now might just be a "big swing back after the biggest swing down," you have to understand that I haven't felt motivated in a good 3 years or so.  This is the first time I actually feel a desire to be religious again.  And that is soo key for me - without that motivation, I can't do anything.  So even if I fall again, if I can just maintain this new motivation and mindset, I feel like I'll be able to live more in line with the life  I want to live.  That being said, I certainly need to approach things differently now than I did back in the day.  I'm making a concerted effort to abandon my perfectionist mindset.  I'm not taking on everything at once.  I'm not leaving my whole lifestyle and going back to Yeshiva cuz that will doom me to failure.  And when I fall, I won't let it change my view of myself and let it turn me into a whole different person.  Rather I'll just recognize that I'm not perfect, but I'm trying.

2. I think that you are underestimating how big a role lust plays in my life.  It is the one thing that consistently makes me not want to serve G-d.  When I was living my life carefree over the last few years, my life pretty much revolved around lust.  Whether it was internet, meeting girls, masturbating, looking at girls, etc, - it dominated my life.  It's the only thing that really pulls me away from G-d, the only true taivah that I have.  I don't have a taivah to eat not kosher or to break shabbos- those things just kind of happened.  But lust - it's almost like there's G-d and then there's lust on the opposite side.  And if I allow lust to take over, there's no more G-d.  So yeah, while all my problems don't stem from lust, but rather from a deeper psychological place, lust certainly plays a big role and without controlling that aspect of my life, I don't think I can succeed at all.

3. Regarding your advice about therapy - I hear what you're saying and I appreciate that.  But, at this point in my life, I'm really not sure how much even an amazing therapist might help me.  I've been to good therapists, but the reason they didn't help me is because I WILL NEVER BE HAPPY UNLESS I ACTIVELY PURSUE THE LIFE I WANT TO BE LIVING.  I'm very self aware of how my brain functions, and at this point, there's not much a therapist might add.  I'm a huge supporter of therapy, but I'm at a point in my life where I need to take action, instead of sitting and analyzing the reasons for why I haven't been taking action.  Oh, not to mention I'm in school and just can't afford therapy right now. 

Anyways, thanks for the advice.  Good Shabbos.

startingover13 wrote on 25 Nov 2011 18:51:

This is the most important line to me.  You realize what took me a while to realize.  I love thinking about my problem.  I realized that I need to act.  or as they say "you can't think yourself into right living, you can only live yourself into right thinking".  I think this was also in a very recent chizzuk email.

Have a great shabbos!  I look forward to "hearing" more from you.

hey starting over,

I hope you had a good shabbos.

Myself and many others here have and are going through/went through very similar situations. there are three things i would like to share with you.

uno - Hashem loves you so much and I feel like sole brothers with you as well.

dos- Look around and find a plan/program that will work for you, do not just try on your own. make a real plan.

tres - there is something that i think is fundamental and used here on the site alot and that's called Keep on trucking (KOT) and the idea is once we find a program and really start working it, if and if you hit a bump and slip/fall whatever, we need to remember its not over. We get up and move on in the forward direction and that's called KOT.  If we go in to this for the win and suddenly we slip back a bit we can get all frustrated and loose the drive so to speak. and that's why KOT is so important.

Please keep on posting don't go at it alone. Please find a person that you can talk too (i would think other they a rabbi, because you maynot feel like nagging him all the time)

--hm

startingover13 wrote on 24 Nov 2011 22:25:


I know exactly what you're talking about. I also view myself very highly and I can identify many strengths that I have. Nevertheless, I have a hard time saying "no" and standing up for my needs. I also have an urge whenever I'm in disagreement, to just give in and side with the other party and not stand with my view. I tend to tell myself "after all, why should you be right more than them?". So yes, I know exactly what you're saying...
I've started though to stand up for my views more and agree to disagree and even (surprise, surprise) have had situations where the opposite happens-the other party agrees with me in the end!
I also say "no" much more. I try to be nice about it but sometimes there's no choice but to just say it as it is. Some people just don't leave you any room for a nice way to decline whatever it is they are asking you to do and they will therefore suffer the consequences of being told "no" without any extra niceties.
I even realized that I needed to say no to my parents sometimes. Of course, with them, it is in a very respectful way and I explain why I can't do or help as they please. But even with them, it's necessary to make boundaries. It's not like they're trying to hurt me, but subconsciously, they probably have marked me as the child who does everything happily without complaining and therefore I get a lot of tasks which I'm really not up for and when I do them, it builds tons of resentment inside of me and I get angry at them. So, it's important for our relationship that they know what my limits are and that I can stand up for myself.

BTW, I was surprised to learn that you're a perfectionist because I am too! I tend to look at things in an all-or nothing way; I'm not happy with progress alone, I need complete mastery. So I'm working on that as well;
I try to give myself a pat on the back for even little things that I do, even if it's far from perfect.

I think there are a lot of perfectionists among us here.  See today's dov Quotes.

Oy.  I hadn't realized how difficult this would be. My goodness, it's been so long since I've thought about this and I hadn't realized how much a part of my life lust had become.  I'm gonna be very honest - I just don't know what to do with myself - whenever I used to just be sitting around with not much to do I would go online, look at pictures, etc.  I put a filter on my computer, and I even got rid of facebook (which was my favorite pasttime) but I still keep finding myself picking up my computer, going on to youtube, etc.  It's like I feel like my day is not complete until I do that and now I feel this literally constant fight inside of me to resist.  Already feeling completely discouraged (though not with my newfound desire to maintain a religious lifestyle - I still am completely motivated with that.  just in terms of looking/acting). Looks like it's gonna be a looonnng road ahead:-(

Well, the alternative sucks lemons.

Welcome to the chevra. We are in the same boat together. Use us!

get some other entertainment lined up. There's really a lot to do out there that's really fun... You just have to take the initiative and start doing something and then you'll just roll with it. I know that for me it's really hard to do something new even if it's fun. I'd rather just hang around at home doing nothing. But once I'm on the move, it's great. Get into really good shape, play sports, read whatever...

Startingover13,
I finally had the time today to read your intro post.  (I didn't read all the replies, though)
I relate to lust pulling you off the derech.  I was also raised modern orthodox and always had a strong pull to girls and porn.  I became addicted in my early teens, and went off the derech for a few years.  Came back to modern orthodoxy, and moved steadily toward the right.  I now have a beautiful family, a great job, and learn b'chavrusa mornings and nights.  All while still in active addiction!  I finally discovered this website in the spring of '09 and have been sober since then without a serious slip.

You know what you need to do.  There's no room for TV and movies in recovery.  It's also very unwise to linger or wander on the internet as you describe.  I know the feeling.  Believe me, the source is the addiction hoping to get a peek.

I find having an early morning learning seder (before davening) is very helpful in keeping me off the net the night before, getting me to bed early.

Do you have an exercise routine.  There's something new and physical you can do.

And yes, you'll probably need to wean yourself from hanging with the college dudes.  Just gradually fade back.

If you take the necessary steps, make the necessary cuts, and daven like crazy for help, Hashem will pick you up, help you rebuild your life and your relationship with Him.

One  day  at  a  time.

Go for the good life.

Alex

alexeliezer wrote on 29 Nov 2011 19:38:


Alex - thank you for your post.  I'm glad to hear you can relate to me and went through a similar process.  You're right that "I know what I need to do" . . .  it's just soo hard.  But I'm really committed to trying - baby steps this time, no leaps.

Baby steps!!!

Geshmak!!

Oy vei, another megillah! Aaaaaahhhhh!!! :'(

startingover13 wrote on 29 Nov 2011 02:45:

Gevalt. You may be suffering from what I and others here and everywhere suffer from, at times:

1- the belief that the motto "one day at a time" is smart, sweet, nice, and encouraging - but not really reality. That is is a gimmick.

That's too bad. See, there is no looong road ahead. There is only today. As long as we smile wryly when we hear that, and pretend to agree to just focus on today - just cuz it makes things easier - we still don't get it. Gimmicks do not make for a new life. There are no gimmicks in this business.
Only confrontation with reality.

and perhaps also,

2- that belief that "distracting myself from desires is what it's all about."

Too bad. That derech is truly fine for some people, many of them ba'alei madreigoh and serious b'nei Torah. But for me and many other folks with chronic lust problems, it means it's all still all about me, me, me. King baby still rules the day. And sof davar, it doesn't work. Cuz when I feel like being really good (cuz deveikus feels great!), I'll serve myself up some great 'avodas Hashem' experience - and when I don't feel so good, I'll take a sweet serving of porn.

And that's exactly what we do.

I know people like to imagine that we are far more l'shem Shomayim than that, but methinks we overestimate ourselves...especially we of the predictably masturbating crowd. "Vayigbah libi b'darkei Hashem" is not an excuse for sticking our heads in the sand...

Well, that path of salvation - fully relying on the game of distraction to prove I am doing something about my problem - is probably 100% fine for most frum yidden out there - but not to addicts. It's too little, too late.

Perhaps it's a question of focus. For an addict, focusing on being a ben aliyah seems to be just plain stupid - for the simple reason that we'd be putting the cart before the horse (as usual). But there we go again, imagining that hechereh madreigos is what we really need! Ignoring the faoundation is just too tempting and too easy. No bedrock of true G-d-awareness, a wish-washy honesty (that has been tolerating being two-faced for years!) at best, and immaturity galore? No problem! "I'm busy crying real tears of d'veikus in the middle of L'cho Dodi right now, so please leave me alone!" That's too easy. Before we know it we are back in the toilet....

Rather, living with Hashem is never defined by 'being good'. Being good results from it or helps lead us to it - but it is not it, itself. It happens in the mind, where nobody can see. As they say in AA about recovery, "it's an inside job."

So it's a paradox. On one hand there is no way to think ourselves into right living - we can only live ourselves into right thinking. But the actual recovery is a state of mind. Of surrender to G-d by way of surrender to the truth, one little step at a time.

It's about being a little more real, a little more honest, and a little more focused on Him than on myself. Sounds like a madreigah, but it's not. Plenty of goyim do it - most of the sober drunks and drug addicts (and sex addicts) out there eventually get it to some degree, and that's how they stay sober for the rest of their lives. It's G-d who does it, not them. But simultaneously, "ein hadovor tolui ella bee!" I am the only one who can surrender to Hashem and let Him in to take care of me. And I can't learn how to do it by myself. I needed to learn how from other drunks on recovery, and still do. I forget so, so easily.

And frum Jews have a harder time than most in doing this. We lust to understand it, to retain some mental control, to not seem idiots - even neged Hashem. Of course, as any of us will agree, porn and masturbation make total idiots of us all. Nu. So it bleibs a kashya.  :

And the dumb farmboys surely have it easier. Nebach for them...?

Some 'madreigo', huh?

May Hashem bless us all with protection from all mistakes and with at least a tiny bit of joy in the truth, no matter how it looks or feels.

I am an addict.  There.  I said it.  I know in past posts I have used the word "addiction" but I don't think I ever believed I was truly and addict until right now.  How do I know?  Because I'm finally at a point in my life where I want to stop this.  But I can't.  For those who have followed my story, you know that I was recently inspired to do teshuva in my life.  And I continue to be totally motivated and working hard on my relationship with God.  But this addiction is killing me.  Now that I want to stop but can't, I finally realize that I am truly addicted.  And it's killing me.  It just pulls me away from G-d.  After I act out, it's not that I don't want to serve God anymore, it's that I feel like I don't deserve to.  I won't make an Asher Yatzar, for example, when I come out of the bathroom because I feel like it's spitting in God's face (though I know that's not logically true, it's just how I feel). 
No matter what I block with this filter, I always find material to keep me "satisfied."  I don't know why I'm posting now, or what it will accomplish.  I know you'll all have some nice words of chizzuk for me but where will that get me?  Every time this urge takes me over I just no longer care.  I block all thoughts of doing whats right out of my head.  I try to block God out for a moment.  And of course, there He is right back as soon as I finish.  Anyways, like I said, I'm not sure what this post will accomplish, I feel like I'm just kvetching, but I just felt this need to put my thoughts on paper.  Hope you're all doing well.

-Startingover

startingover13 wrote on 05 Dec 2011 19:37:

So what are you "doing"?  Besides kvetching of course .