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Fallen but I can get up 28 Oct 2011 10:55 #123168

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I am a kollel man, learning full time.  I consider myself a ben aliyah who is always seeking to grow.  I did not grow up in this system, I come from a very modern background, I went to Yeshiva and became very serious.  However, I carry with my a major load of baggage from my high school years, and that is a sexual addiction.  They say that once one is addicted, he must view himself as always an addict, and never let his bars down.  I wish I knew that before.  Oh, and theres one more thing.  My attraction is to men. 
Unfortunately, I was molested an a consistent basis for when I was 8 or 9, by a family member.  Every since a young age, I had an obsession with other boys and even had a little fling when I was a young boy with a boy in my class (puppy love).  Around bar mitvah time I developed a major masturbation addiction.  I couldn't go to sleep at night without doing it, and I would often do it many times a day.  This lasted straight through high school until I went off to Yeshiva (except, interestingly enough, for a few months when I had a girlfriend).  I also had a computer in my room and was addicted to gay pornography.  I thank Hashem all the time for the fact that  I was in high scjool over 10 years ago when internet was not available at high speed like it is today, and therefore I did not get myself into more of a mess then I did.  I do not envy today's teenage boys.  I went to Yeshiva and was able to break my addiction on my own, and stayed clean for 3 years!  However, there was a time when I was very depressed and in over my head with my same sex feelings, and it was causing me tremendous anxiety.  I went to the mashgiach, and went to therapy.  However, that time was very grueling and difficult for me, and I unfortunately slipped into more masturbation (not on a regular basis). 
I am now happily and wonderfully married with three kids.  However, for some reason, a few months ago, I stayed at my parents house for a few months, where the internet is not filtered, and I slipped back into a state of wanting gay porn again.  Thank G-d, I do not have internet in my house, but I find that very often if I am exposed to internet access in a private place, I fall.  I know this is something I can overcome, and I don't eat myself up over it, because I know that it is a result of a addiction that I obtained before I really had the bechira to choose not that way.  However, I also know that right now I have the bechira to pull myself out of it, and find a way to control my tayvos when I am exposed to unfiltered internet.  Unfortunately, we live in a world where it is so easy to access unfiltered internet, no matter how many filters you put on your own computer.  So, I am looking for etzos on how to control this very, very strong irrational urge.
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Re: Fallen but I can get up 28 Oct 2011 13:49 #123179

  • gevura shebyesod
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Welcome Overcoming!

You are not alone here. There are many of us who share your issues, I am one of them. Our stories are similar in many ways, although I did not have the horrible experience you had as a child.

Look through the site, read the handbooks. There are many paths to recovery, choose what works for you. And we are all here to support, encourage, and share with you.

Gevura!

****************************************
Below is the "Official Welcome Package"
Welcome to our community, you have finally come home!

GuardYourEyes (GYE) is a vibrant network and fellowship of Jews of all affiliations, struggling to purify themselves and break free of lust related behaviors. For the first time, there is somewhere to turn to for help in these areas. We're all in the same boat here. Tzuras Rabim Chatzi Nechama  .  Once you've arrived, there's no turning back. Everyone here will just grab a hold of you and pull you up with them!
 
In the last couple of years, the GYE network has helped roughly 1,000 Jews get back on a path of sanity, self-control and healing and has touched the lives of thousands more. GYE has become known throughout the Jewish world as the number one address for dealing with these challenges which have reached epidemic proportions. 

The tools of our recovery program were developed with guidance from the best experts in the field, such as Rabbi Dr. Avraham J. Twerski, and through the personal experience of hundreds of Jews who successfully broke free. We use a unique approach that recognizes that there are many different levels in these struggles.

Our network is comprised of a website, a pulsating forum, phone conferences, daily Chizuk e-mails, support hotlines, therapists, live 12-Step groups and a program of recovery for all levels of this struggle/addiction.

All our work is free of charge and we zealously protect the complete anonymity of all our members.

Here are some quick things you can do to help you jump straight into your journey:

1) See the "GYE Program in a Nutshell" (Right Click the link and press "Save Link/Target As" to save the PDF file to your computer) that can help you quickly identify at what level of the struggle you are at, and which tools and features would help you most at your particular level.

2) Install a strong filter (see this page for more info). It is hard to break free of this while having all the garbage within a mouse click away.  The filter gabai at filter.gye@gmail.com will hold the passwords for you. We also highly advise installing "Reporting Software" such as webchaver.org to give you some accountability.

3) Join the daily Chizuk e-mail lists to get fresh chizuk every day.

4) Join the 90 Day Challenge. Scientific studies have shown that it takes 90 days to change the neuron pathways created by addictive behaviors in the brain.

5) Post away on this forum, where hundreds of yidden like you exchange chizuk and post logs of their journey to recovery. You will internalize that you are not alone, and you will learn the techniques and attitude that work for so many others.

6) Join our free anonymous phone conferences, led by an experienced sponsor.

7) If you need more general guidance, write to GYE’s helpline at gye.help@gmail.com or call the hotline at 646-600-8100.

8.) Download and read the "Guard Your Eyes Handbook" (a hard copy can be purchased for cost price over here). This handbook outlines the GYE approach in detail, and makes our network much more effective and helpful for people. The handbook has two parts:

A) The first part, "The 20 Tools", detail suggested tools and techniques, in progressive order, beginning with the most basic and fundamental approaches to dealing with this addiction, and continuing down through increasingly earnest and powerful methods. No matter what level our addiction may have advanced to, we will be able to find the right tools to break free in this handbook!

The second part, "Attitude & Perspective", detail 30 basic principles to help us maintain the proper attitude and perspective on this struggle. Here are some examples: Understanding what we are up against, what it is that Hashem wants from us, how we can use this struggle for tremendous growth, how we can deal with bad thoughts, discovering how to redirect the power of our souls, understanding that every little bit counts, learning how to bounce back up after a fall, and so on and so forth…

Our souls cry inside of us, but we have accustomed ourselves to block out that cry. Today we can begin to be who we really want to be.

We are here for you.
www.GuardYourEyes.org
GYE E-Mail Helpline: gye.help@gmail.com
GYE Phone Hotline: 646-600-8100
Help us help others: Donate Here
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל


"If it would be so easy there wouldn't be a GYE, but if it would be impossible there also wouldn't be a GYE."
"Sometimes a hard decision leads to an easier outcome."
- General Grant


My story: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/111583-hello-my-friends
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Re: Fallen but I can get up 28 Oct 2011 14:00 #123180

  • gibbor120
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welcome overcoming, thanks for comingover .  We're glad to have you with us.  Thanks for sharing your story.
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Re: Fallen but I can get up 28 Oct 2011 16:22 #123228

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welcome overcoming!

I too am a former kollel guy who struggles with same sex attraction (SSA) as well.  I distantly remember falling at that time after being clean for years as well. It was an awful feeling so my heart goes out to u.  I had no one to turn to and it took me a long time to right the ship.  My biggest mistake was that I felt like all that work I had done was gone.  I have since worked on looking at the big picture instead.  You are in the right place and hopefully with the support of everyone here things will turn around quickly.

MN
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Re: Fallen but I can get up 28 Oct 2011 19:00 #123257

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Overcoming,
I like your positive screen name.  It's erev Shabbos but I wanted to at least say hello to our newest chaver.  Have a wonderful Shabbos.  Hope to see you back here next week when I have more time.
Alex
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Re: Fallen but I can get up 30 Oct 2011 03:17 #123305

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Welcome Overcoming.  Thanks for sharing your story.  You are so not alone  here.  Lots of guys will come and be helpful.  I'm limited in what I can offer you, except to let you know I'll be checking in.

Hatzlocho
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Re: Fallen but I can get up 30 Oct 2011 03:31 #123307

  • ninetydays
Hi Overcoming.

You were asking for tips how to help you overcome  your urge when you find yourself at a palce with private unfiltered internet.

Let me ask you this.

When does the struggle happen for you? When you find yourself in a room with the internet you go to it to fall?

Or

You go to the internet for innocent reasons and once on you get tempted and fall?

If it is the latter you can accept never to touch a keyboard with internet in a private place... No... Not even to go onto theyeshivaworld.com

But if it is the former ou really need to try and avoid such places.

Best!

nienty
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Re: Fallen but I can get up 30 Oct 2011 04:48 #123313

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Hello everyone and gut voch!
Thanks to all who responded to my life in a nutshell.  Thankfully, I realistically realize that I am not alone in this struggle.  In fact, I probably have less of a problem then most people on this forum since I am clean 98% of the time. 
In response to ninetydays:
It is easier said then done to simply stay away from those places that have unfiltered internet access.  In fact, nowadays, it is nearly impossible.  For example, the other day I was at my parents house, and there was no one else at home.  They tell the stories of the gadolim who jumped out the windows of second story buildings to avoid being in yichud with a woman.  Halevai that I should have the same commitment to run away from yichud with unfiltered internet like that, but unfortunately it is not realistic.  The baalei mussar say that one should not attack the yetzer harah head-on because he is much stronger than  you and there is little chance of success.  Rather, one should come to him from the flanks and attack him from behind.  This resonates very much with me. 
In response to your question, I find that there are two ways that the yetzer harah gets me. 
1. He comes head-on and tells me "You cannnot fight me, give up, you need this and if you just do it a little bit the need will dissipate."  And I run like a sheep being led to slaughter.  It is amazing that no matter how much you learn, read, and contemplate the fact that you ARE able to overcome, and you DO have the choice to say no, the yetzer harah is still stronger!  I need to find away to counter-attack from the flanks.  One way, for example, is instead of typing the porn site in the browser, I can type guardyoureyes.org and read from people's posts on the forum.  It is very compelling to read how far people have gone, and how they scream at others not to follow.
2. The other way the yetzer harah attacks is from the flanks. He convinces me to read or look at something seemingly innocuous and harmless.  Then, to look at something a little more borderline (mens underwear).  By then, you are already in his grasp and slowly he gets you to look at little more and a little more exciting things, until next thing you know you are watching  a gay porn video.  This approach is often harder to handle then the first, because often times we need to use the internet for something practical.  While in my home, I do not have internet access, it to some degree makes it harder when I leave, because it forces me to use other peoples internet when I need to do something kosher, and oftentimes that internet is not filtered. 
Anyway, these are my thoughts for the day.
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Re: Fallen but I can get up 30 Oct 2011 14:43 #123339

  • ninetydays
Interesting.

Personally I have internet at home but the filter is so stong I am not able to go to cbsnews.com.

Whenever I need something that is not allowed on my home computer I go to the library. Do I look like a nebachel using the library computer? Maybe. Its worth it in that it eliminates the opportunity to come crashing down (I would not open anything innapropriate in a library) .

Best!

ninety
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Re: Fallen but I can get up 31 Oct 2011 18:16 #123508

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Overcoming,
I'm curious.  Other than this recent episode with the internet, have you been truly clean?  No fantasies, no checking guys out?  In-the-moment intimacy with your wife?  Just checking.
Alex
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Re: Fallen but I can get up 02 Nov 2011 04:40 #123822

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It all depends how you define "clean."  I don't think that it is reasonable to expect yourself never to have fantasies or check guys out.  When I thought first comes into your mind, you are "ones."  You are only responsible once you allow the thoughts to turn into fantasy and you begin to escape into that fantasy world.  However, I still think that a person can view himself has "clean" as long as those thoughts or fantasies do not take it a step further bringing one to do actual actions that are not okay such as masturbation or looking at porn.  You can't expect too much of yourself.  Hashem doesn't want us to be perfect, he wants us to be better.
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Re: Fallen but I can get up 02 Nov 2011 15:02 #123857

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Hi Overcoming,

You are so right, it's impossible to always avoid that "first look". But we must do our best to stop it right there.

I am pretty much in the same place, I am getting better about not thinking about it all the time, but I get triggered very strongly visually, and it's a struggle to pull away each time. And sometimes I start fantasizing, but I usually catch it after a few seconds, and I give myself a virtual (and sometimes actual if i'm alone) slap across the face, and I tell myself "That's not who I am, I don't do that anymore!"

One very important thing is to do our best to avoid getting in that situation in the first place. For guys like us it is much harder, because we are expected to be with and interact with the very people that are our problem, we don't have a mechitza to hide behind. But there are things we can do to help ourselves. For instance in Shul I try to take a seat where there are fewer people in my line of sight, and I take my glasses off. It helps, but I'm nowhere near perfect. Sometimes I just know that someone is there, and it's like there's a string attached to my head pulling it around. I just tell myself "later..." and try to keep pushing it off, hopefully he will leave before it's time to put my glasses back on....

Hang in there, it does get easier with time.

Gevura!
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל


"If it would be so easy there wouldn't be a GYE, but if it would be impossible there also wouldn't be a GYE."
"Sometimes a hard decision leads to an easier outcome."
- General Grant


My story: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/111583-hello-my-friends
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Re: Fallen but I can get up 02 Nov 2011 15:53 #123868

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Overcoming wrote on 02 Nov 2011 04:40:

However, I still think that a person can view himself has "clean" as long as those thoughts or fantasies do not take it a step further bringing one to do actual actions that are not okay such as masturbation or looking at porn.  You can't expect too much of yourself.  Hashem doesn't want us to be perfect, he wants us to be better.

True... to a point.  If you KEEP fantasizing, you WILL do the other stuff as well.  As Gevurah said, early interception is key.  To never fantasize may be tough, but to mentally change the subject rather quickly, go for a jog, call a friend... that is within reach.

Hatzlacha!
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Re: Fallen but I can get up 02 Nov 2011 17:08 #123893

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Overcoming,
Read your last post.  As long as you're being honest with yourself and don't let the thoughts turn into fantasies, as you put it, then it sounds like you're in pretty good shape outside of the internet thing.

Beware though, before I found GYE and started recovery, I tried various gedarim, including nedarim (Guard doesn't like these but they worked for me; I know myself).  Once cut off from internet shmutz by my neder, the Y"H launched a vicious attack on my mind and shmiras eynayim (which I was never very good at -- I thought my only problem was the internet stuff).  It was only when I started recovery, and learned the importance of bulletproof shmiras eynayim and davening whenever the thoughts came, that I was able to overcome this and be at peace.

Hatzlacha!
Alex
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