[quote="black bigday" link=topic=4454.msg119304#msg119304 date=1316199765]
[quote="Yossi.L." link=topic=4454.msg119198#msg119198 date=1316137574]
black bigday wrote on 15 Sep 2011 22:36:


If your wife would be able to see those slips, then would those slips happen?

If my wife were to know .00001% of what is in my mind, she would (chalila, but literally) kill herself, rachmanah latzlon.  As I introduced myself, I mentioned that she was abused in many ways as a little girl, including s*xually.  Other people can share a lot more than I can.  I have to constantly be on my toes about this issue, as well as a million bipolar issues that come up.

black bigday wrote on 16 Sep 2011 21:02:


I don't envy your situation, with a wife who's bound up in her own issues.  Sometimes I don't feel I'm getting all I want or "need" from those around me.  Have you read "Garden of Peace" by R' Sholom Arush?  There's a chapter titled "Be a Man" that I found to be both very difficult to apply (especially as a recovering lust addict) but also very helpful, especially with this issue.  The more I practice it and internalize it, the happier I am with my family relationships.

I can't possibly do it justice in a sentence or two, but basically he advises to focus on being a giver.  True, it is satisfying to receive love, but you can fill that void also by giving it.  Whenever you're feeling like you're not loved, reach out and give love to your family.  It's the absolute best you can do.  It's also really the only thing you can do.

black bigday wrote on 16 Sep 2011 20:38:


Did you know about these issues before you got married?

black bigday wrote on 16 Sep 2011 20:38:


Oy that must be tough. I can't imagine how hard that must be.

alex- when things were really rough a couple of years ago and I couldn't take it, I called a Rebbi (litvak) in Eretz Yisrale.  He basically told me I had two choices: divorce to save myself, or become a total giver with taking next to nothing.  He sent me to the Garden of Marriage, which was just chapter headings for me to get into Breslov thought, which I've been heavily into for the past two years and is the only reason I'm still married, and have a certain degree of shalom and simcha.

But it's hard.  I makes my LA crave a sip.  I think it is a tikun nefesh thing.  It's just too much that one of the most distorted, perverted, addicted minds should have such a zivug.  I try to give, but I have limits.  When I reach them, then I need to take.  But take what?  It can't be taking from her.  Take time for myself to chill out and just relax.  I would want to watch movies, but then she and you beautiful guys on the forum yell at me and tell me any escape is part of the addiction.  So I'm still at a quandry as to that point.

Wow you're realy in a tough spot there. I envy your mesirash nefesh in sticking together to help her.

Maybe you can find some relaxing but productive activity to help ease the stress, like a hobby or something. If you are actually doing something useful it's not really "escaping" it's just a change of pace.

Hang in there and Keep on Trucking!!!

Gevura!

Goth,
Sounds like you have a very good understanding of your situation.
You're a remarkable giver for sticking with your wife.  In Olam Habah you will be amply rewarded.  We don't talk about it enough.

Meanwhile, your easy outlets to receive a little are escape or fantasy and P&M (more escape, no?)
You're on the right track with the meditation stuff, because it will bring you closer to the one relationship where you are the receiver and He is the giver.
That's a high life! Might as well be you.
Continued strength and hatzlacha!
Alex

Wow, BlackBigday, i am so impressed by your efforts.

a friend of mine from SA told me that he had a sponsor at one point who was addicted to lust and to alcohol and his wife was unable/unwilling to have relations. the guy said that the RBSO has a sense of humor and put them both together. not that it makes your situation any easier but there are others who have a similar situation.

wishing you the best
zs

struggler wrote on 18 Sep 2011 20:51:


Here's the big question that anybody hearing about this would ask first?  Did I know before we got married?

I've asked myself that everyday for about 15 years, millions of times a day.  What did I know, what did it mean to me at that time, should I have know better?

Facts: I knew she was seeing a therapist early on in our dating.  After we were engaged, before we were married, she told me she was s*xually abused.  Among those conversations, I asked her how it would affect our relationship, and she responded , "don't worry, it's going to be fine".  The shiduach was made by a Rav and Rebbetzin who knew us both well.  She went to one of my Rebbi's wife to be checked out before we went out on a date.  The Rebbetzin who checked her out said she was great.

But should I have known more?  I've tormented myself over this, as I have mentioned.  The bipolar II/ depression issues with some periods of potenial sucide stuff all happened later in the marriage.  The adhd kids could not have been predicted.  I could be contacted by the school multiple times a day about my boy.  My wife has had HUGE problems with him since 18 months, and recently said she would have to give him up for adoption if it wasn't that I mostly deal with him.

I was 24, and dumb (I still am, perhaps dumber).  She checked out with the people I trusted.  Tons of people I knew saw therapists.  I didn't know what it does to a person to be s*xually abused.  I didn't know how bad other things for her were growing up.  She is a tzedakus.  People who dealt with less then her can't even get dressed by themselves they are so messed up.  She needs to take, it is not her fault.  I thought I could give her what she needed.  I learned the hard way that I'm in over my head.  Part of me takes the blame for this desicion, and I feel I must live with it.  Part of me feels it was beyond my ability to know all this stuff, and I must accept that it is from Hashem.  Maybe they are both true.  I don't know it matters anymore.  I'm living in the solution now, with your guys help, not in the problem.

I'm just worried my life is not sustainable.  How much longer can I give?  What if I get to the breaking point where I need to take and knitting Rav Nachman kippas isn't going to cut it anymore?

Love,
Black Bigday

BB, i feel for you. you are a real trooper for doing so much in your situation. i don't have any magic answers but i will have you in mind at davening.

there is a thread by 'Kanesher', might help to read some of what he wrote www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=757.0

and if you ever knit a kipa it would be an honor to wear one that you made

Goth,
Thanks for sharing more of your story (really a cautionary tale).
I do know two women with bipolar disorder, mainly depression, who came out of it and are more functional later in life (after all their kids were grown).  Their husbands are amazing people. Get into life as much as possible.  Keep learning and growing.  Kids with ADHD can become functional adults.

One day at a time.  Maybe a support group for spouses of mentally ill?
Alex

Blackbigday,

Your story is both sad and inspiring. The fact that you are coming from such difficulties and not just giving up is awe inspiring. Thank you for giving me what to aspire to.

Yossi

Blacky, Boy do I understand.  Only from your wife's point of view. I'm Bipolar.  A real bag of tricks.  I feel for you.  You never know where it's going to come from next. 

Is your wife under the care of a psychiatrist?  Is she medicated?  If not, I suggest you send Rabbi/Dr Twersky an email and ask for help with encouraging her to get medical help.  The medication trip works very well for most and not very well for others, not at all for yet others, and can make things worse for a few.  But it has helped me a lot.

What my wife at the time did for herself that seemed to work, besides talking to a professional about how to live with me, was to start making a life for herself.  Bipolars can be very demanding and feel very entitled.  They'll suck you dry.  this is not good for you, for her, or for the children.  So she started doing things just for herself that brought her some joy without abandoning her relationships with everyone else in the family.  Ultimately, though, she left. 20-2o hindsight that was the right thing to do, to protect the kids, to make a new life for herself, and to stop all the drama.  I don't know your situation, but even the depressive side of b/p can be very draining for the spouse.

YOU need some help with all this.  How about joining a group for spouses/family members of the mentally ill/bipolar disorder.  Try googling "wife bipolar group".  Just like it's important not to be isolated with our problem, it's important that you get some support, information, and get out of the house for a little while.  If that's not an option, try online support groups.  NO CHATROOMS.

The other thing she began to do was to swim laps.  It got her out of the house and she returned relaxed.

I hope this helps a little. 

Beyond that, do the regular stuff:  filters, handbooks, posting,  Number one priority is our sobriety ("If your traveling with a child, or someone acting like a child, pull the oxygen mask down over you face first, and then put the mask on their face").  As we clean up, our relationship with Hashem changes, deepens, for want of a better word.  and of course it's from that relationship that all else flows. 

I'm suggesting something different than "He basically told me I had two choices: divorce to save myself, or become a total giver with taking next to nothing".  I'm not a tzaddik yet, so being a total giver is out of the question.  so I have to deal with myself the way I find myself just now.  I have limitations.  If each day I am given a spiritual reprieve from acting out, taking a second look (a work still in progress), indulging in the yh's seductions, if I'm doing my little work everyday and doing what I can to keep my spiritual condition, then the rest seems to flow from there.  I'm a very limited person, this seems to be the best I can cope with for now.  Baby steps aren't an option just yet.  I'm still trying to stand up.

My experience has been that I have to keep my sobriety my number one priority. Oddly, especially during the summer, it is all the pritzus that forces me to keep making those choices throughout the day.  What would I do without the temptation?  I wouldn't have a clue how to be a tzaddik.  so if I keep making those little choices all through the day and night, as best I can, then when I daven, or leyn or just have a talk (R' Nachman again), I settle down, my tzuris lightens, I know everything will be ok, one way or another.

I'm sorry for how long this turned out to be.  I'll keep it short from now on.

You've got a really tough situation.  And no you're not being a cry baby.  Cry, baby, cry.

Much love

wow, 1daat, i am happy for BlackBigday that you posted that tour de force. really good and kind of you
chazak chazak chaver