Bardichev's Battle

black bigday wrote on 08 Sep 2011 02:57:


Maybe this quote can help us understand a bit.
yetzertov wrote on 24 Apr 2009 18:46:

I have the same interest in understanding e/t, but I gather from ppl on this forum that we need to "live in the solution and not in the problem". It doesn't always help to understand the problem better.  We need to focus on the solutions that really work.

Another Question for everybody.  My wife doesn't know about my problems with LA, or what I think I have, imagination addiction.  She knows I am sometimes sad, and struggle with the stresses in life (and the one's in my life in particular).  One thing I have done and want to do is relax and distract myself with movies.  they would have to be without nudity.  I love ones that are mindbending or inspring with a hero.  She is very upset about this, and I have had to stop.  How do I explain these type of movies are nothing compared to where my real struggle is!?!

Black Bigday,

I am not Mr. Religiosness, and what I am about to say has nothing to do with Religiousness(although everything does), but feeling the need to watch a movie when your stressed ANY MOVIE is EXACTLY the problem. The need to distance yourself from reality when the times get tough is the problem. Retreating to the world of fantasy, however clean that fantasy may be, is still removing yourself from living life! I am not saying that watching a movie is inherently wrong, I am saying that feeling the NEED to watch it when you are stressed is unhealthy. Although you may think it rrlaxes your stress, it doesnt. All it does is supresses your stress, and it will explode unhealthily at a different time.

Yossi

Yossi-
I love that comment.  You may be hitting the nail on my head!  But doesn't everybody need some escape, sometime?  Isn't the goal to control it and keep it within boundries that don't hurt us?  How else do you channel that stuff?  Isn't even exercise a form of escape, albeit a million times better than watching a movie?

black bigday wrote on 08 Sep 2011 02:57:


I am unsure where it’s in Gemora, but it talks about the fact that Sanhedrin made it so that lust for avoda zora went away & it did. Then they tried the same things for sexual things & world stopped functioning, so they restore it. I guess without lust, man would try to put in work to be with woman. A lot times its time consuming and emotionally draining to deal with their drama (for most women). 

I am still feeling out the site just checking In good night. I don't know where is the best place to do so. Also I want to know how to wright stuff like new posts or conversation

black bigday wrote on 08 Sep 2011 23:26:


No human being on this earth needs an "escape." We all need, at times, to switch up our constructive behaviors. In other words; exercise is not an "escape" it's a constructive behavior that is different from the hustle bustle of life and is very constructive. Watching a movie that's educational in some respect can be a constructive behavior. Personally, any kind of escapist behavior is a sign of unhealthiness for me and automatically raises my antenna. I'm just telling you my personal feelings on this matter, I'm convinced of it's truth right now, although I'm always cognizant of the fact that I might be co pletely misguided, as I have been in the past.

Hello BB, and a belated welcome to the forum.
You have some great shailos and received some amazing responses.
Let me address two.
You wonder why we compare LA to alcoholism, and you wonder if you're alone in being so fantasy focused.  My personal experience with LA has included, at different stages in my life, fantasy, p__, m_____, and live relationships based (at least on my part) on lust.  When I stopped looking at p__ because of a vow I took, my mind was literally taken over with intrusive thoughts, images and fantasies.  They came at the most inopportune times and I couldn't get rid of them.  What were once pleasant diversions became dirty ugly monsters.  Like an ivy vine climbing and wrapping around a solid tree, these thoughts were slowly killing me.

Starting to sound like alcoholism now?

On a simpler level, both LA and alcoholism are addictions, and have the same proven pathway out.

On to another issue.
You don't need to escape.  There is no word in lashon hakodesh for "fun," which tells us that it doesn't really exist.
What works better is new areas of growth.  People are happy when they are growing.  Certainly growing in avodas Hashem, shmiras eynayim and all the things we work on here is good for your happiness.  But also other areas which, because they are new to you, you will experience rapid growth in them.  Like a sport, a hobby, or a new workout.

Just vibing with you bro  8)  Good to have you on board!
Alex

Wow Yossi, those are strong words.  I may be ready to buy it.  Does anyone else agree or disagree with the statement that there is no room for 'escape'?

Hey Alex- thanks for the vibes, I need them!  Here is my gripe about the comparison to alcohol:
I have had 2 deep friendships with AA guys, I believe that system was their salvation.  But with alcohol, as difficult as it is, you don't drink.  That is the big difference with LA.  I am married, am I supposed to not be with my wife?  I will see women in life- there is no way out of that.  It's like telling an alcoholic to get off his addiction while taking a shot of whiskey once in a while!
I am not fighting agianst what we are trying to do here, I am trying to understand it.

Got it.
How does a food addict overcome his addiction?  Everyone has to eat?  When is it eating, and when is it giving in to food addiction?  The first portion, the one he needs for nourishment, is harmless.  It's downright good for him.  The second helping, the big dessert, the family size bag of chips, the 2 liter of Pepsi, that's the addiction.  So while an alky can't take even one drink without sliding back to square one, a food addict can eat a nourishing meal and walk away satisfied and sane.

But        But      But !!
But sex is different than food.  Sex is lust.  Lust is sex.

That's only because we're sick.  Long before we ever got our hands on a real woman, we misused a part of our operating system so many thousands of times, that we have no clue what it's really for.  We think it's just to give ourselves selfish indulgent pleasure.  Escape.  Whatever.  So naturally we can't understand how we can have sex with a woman we love and it be anything more than masturbation inside a woman (sorry guys).  :o

Hence your question:  How can I take this drink?

I think you see where I'm going with this.
Experiencing intimacy with one's wife, if done without fantasy, without getting lusted up in advance, focusing on the moment, on where you are right now, with her, to bond, to make both of you b'simcha with each other -- that's not the drug.  It's not a drink.  It won't make you relapse (provided you don't replay it in your mind and get all aroused again later).

This will come with time, when you have some sobriety under your belt.  It's LA-102.  Believe me, I'm still working at it.

Alex

alexeliezer wrote on 09 Sep 2011 20:02:

Graphic? yes... but very accurate. :-[

Thanks Alex, that hits hard!