Hi there, I've been on this website for a while and have found it very helpful.  I am trying to find other members who share a specific subset of addiction - specifically, to massages.  I do not engage in any of the other addictions members describe on this site except for acting out at massage places (and maybe looking at women on the street).  Nothing risky occurs at the MP's, to be sure, but inappropriate stuff.  I feel it would be helpful to learn from members who have trouble this particular urge.  Please respond to this post if you are in this category, or private message me.  It would be greatly appreciated.  Even if you are not on any program of recovery yet.

wow, the echo is painful. 

Where the chavruta when u need 'em!

All people have different things that get them. I one time called a massage place for something business related and I dropped the word massage parlour. I had no idea what that meant but the lady get realy angry a me saying that thi place is not a parlour. We only offer massages. Thats it!

ninety

Edge,
Several people here feel a bit alienated because they're into live stuff, while the vast majority seem to be satisfied with virtual.

I personally thought about looking for "chavrusas" here with an interest in my particular kink.  But I really couldn't come up with a tachlis, other than maybe feeling better about myself, that I wasn't so bad because someone else is into this too.

You've been around here long enough to know that the pathway out is the same:  12 steps, guard your eyes, guard your thoughts, avoid triggers, daven like crazy.  Works for Woodford drunks and it works for Guinness guzzlers.

For what you're looking for see this post www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=4225.0

Love you man,
Alex

great!  Thanks Alex/Ninety.  I've been having a bit of resentment that nobody bothered to reply to my petition.  Frustrating.  Trying hard to hold back not to act out today, it's tuff.  A dark fog is over my brain right now.

Don't hold back.
Let go. Let go of lust.
Give up your lust.
Turn the fight over to Hashem.

Hi ontheedge,

I agree that the particular form of lust is really not that important.  It's the same animal with many different manifestations.  Any good 'ol lust addict can help you!

ontheedge,

did you ask hashem to help you with the lust? are you doing something productive?

Get away from the edge, man!!  ;D

What a wild night.  I tried to get to an in person meeting but couldn't find the place.  Meanwhile my eyes were darting back and forth and all around looking for the neon lights.  My goodness.  About to do a u-turn and get back on the highway away from this place, but the light turned green so I plowed along and kept looking for a place to go, but I didn't have the guts to try a new place, and fear of gangs and getting arrested sent me back home, defeated.  And yet victorious.  Another day clean.  Kinda.

Anyhow I tried praying, a short small prayer asking Gcd three times to take away the lust urges.  It sorta worked.

Strangely I am still able to guard my eyes on the street from looking at immodestly clad girls ( more than I used to anyhow).  So there is just one last huge animal to tame.

I wonder if the Slonimer Rebbe can help me.

Find a meeting in the other direction.  Avoid driving around at night.  The whole experience of driving through town at night with the lights and all is probably already getting your drug flowing.

Dear Ontheedgeman,

Been there, done that.  I used to go to one place in particular.  Chineese girls.  It happens I studied Chinese in school.  So I could talk a little with them.  After a while it occurred to me that the talking was more what I was looking for, and the "massage" was second.

The rush that comes with the hunt transformed into a longing feeling.  I wanted to be somewhere where I was welcomed, smiled at, where I mattered.  It never occurred to me that I was just another John, and if I didn't come with cash in hand there wouldn't be the smiles and the welcomes.

It wasn't until I came here to GYE that I began to understand how lonely I was; how I was isolated not just from people, but from reality itself; how empty and unfeeling, frightened lonely my heart was; how the only time I really felt close to Hashem was when I was begging his forgiveness, and making promises I'd never keep.

I began to understand that living a secret life was, well, crazy.  You're right, I think, that live contact is different than porn.  With porn the connectedness and beaming is imaginary.  With live, it seems real.  But any sex worker will tell you that it's just a performance.  No pro is ever going to give their heart to you.  We know that, but we imagine they really care for and about us.

So whether it's porn or live, what makes it work is our using our will to make what is imaginary seem real to us.  We are out of touch with reality when we are doing our thing, virtual or live.  We are declaring ourselves masters of reality, that we can make it what we want, and have what we want whenever we want it.  We play god, separated from God. 

So whether it's porn or live, what goes with the addiction is the arrogance.  When we do t'shuvah, that arrogance gets broken down.  I read in the Tanya where it talks about a dead heart is like a log.  It can't catch fire.  but when it's splintered (broken), then it's ready to catch (Holy) fire.

Putting the plug in your jug, stopping acting out, means giving up not only our wildest dreams, our indulging our will to run riot, but it means giving up being the kind of person who would dismiss, ignore God when he wants.  This is not so easy.  In fact it's very hard.  Ask anybody who's working their program, whether through a 12-step program or otherwise, and you'll see there are false starts, progress, regression, more progress.  It takes a lot of work, and we can't do it ourselves.  We need other people, virtual or real.  We need a different kind of closeness to Hashem than the remorse drama.  Coming out of isolation, getting clean of our secrets when it's the appropriate time and place, living with our secrets when it's not appropriate, all takes time and work.

Now for some practical advise.  I don't know if you identify yourself with any chasiddik dynasty.  If you do, then wear your velvet yarmulka, your black hat, shtreimel to the massage parlor. At least wear your gartel.  Go the the massage parlor like a mensch! If you wear peyos, let them hang, not behind the ear.  If you don't identify with any dynasty, at least wear a yarmulkah, black pants and a white shirt.  Better a black suit, but do the best you can.

I think you will find the above advise helpful.  We all need a filter.

If that doesn't work, start asking the girls their real names.  Where they were raised.  Did they go to college, what they studied.  Are they married.  Do they have any kids.  How do they protect themselves from disease.  What do they do for fun.  Have they ever had a real relationship with a John, where there was no money involved.  How much do they make in a week.  What kind of car do they drive.  Do they save any of their money.  See if they'll answer real live questions about their real live lives.  I think you'll be disappointed.  It's all an illusion.  It's all lifeless, is deathfull.

He puts before us Life and death, and bids us to choose Life.  The guys here will help you along.  Hashem will help you along wherever you are.  Even right at the door of the parlor.  Even when you're getting ready for your massage.  T'shuvah is right there at your finger tips.  You can grab it and do a one-eighty in a second, anywhere.

Start posting.  Addiction is addiction, it's all the same.  Me above my Maker.  You think this is a "happy ending"???  Is there a particular day or time of day you're more vulnerable?  Maybe check in with someone during those times, and if you don't check in have an agreement that he'll call you at those times.

Truck away.

Nice post 1daat! Great insights

Wow thanks for the post 1daat.  Very helpful.  When I read your post saying that it's all an allusion and these girls don't care about me, I thought to myself that I knew that.  intellectually, I think I am aware of that but in thinking about it, I realize that when the girl walks out quickly at the end of the massage like I'm a stranger, I feel bad.  Why do I feel bad?  Isn't it kind of obvious these girls will walk out at the end like a transaction?  Obviously my mind thinks one thing and my heart thinks another, i.e. that somehow, some way, these girls do like me, that I'm good looking. 

I once asked a girl where she was from, she responded aggressively saying "Where do you think I'm from?" That hurt too.

Another girl I asked how her day was.  "Same Sh**, different day".  At least she was honest and confided in me!  And she seemed to care about me too, until the second time I saw her, she was cold and mechanical.  And then a month later she wasn't working there anymore.

I have to reread your note and think more about what you are saying.  Thanks again for sharing and helping me.

Hi OTEM, You're welcome.  Keep posting, I need you.  Your sharing helps me, reminds me.  I'll keep checkin in.