Whenever I'm next to an attractive woman I get heated up and feel the urge to mast****. I can avoid getting close to women but don't know what to do on a date, sometimes when my I get so heated up, if I don't mast**** I get pain in that whole area and I can barely concentrate on anything and it is even hard to walk. Any eitzah?

I don't mean to be insulting, but if your problem is so severe, perhaps you shouldn't be dating at all until you've got this issue under control.

I'll let someone else give you the standard welcome routine.

Good luck,

E

feelingreallylost wrote on 23 May 2011 03:29:


Hello!  It sounds as if you have a couple of things going - both an extreme sensitivity towards women, and a propensity towards "blue balls" (vasocongestion).  Basically, it seems as if you see something, your body wants it, your body prepares for it...  And if you don't get rid of the build-up, it hurts a lot.

I know two people who had surgery to help with the pain, when they were in their late teens.  Or perhaps they had a varicocele...  Can't remember.  If it happens frequently, or feels lumpy or odd down there, you might like to see a urologist.  Seriously.

As to the sensitivity, is it possible that you are seeing women as sex-objects, and not as people?  Your body unconsciously prepares itself for an encounter with the said sex-object as soon as you see it?  Presumably this does not happen with close family members, because you see them as people?  Or am I way out with this?

You're exactly right! It doesn't happen with close family members. Also, with other women if I'm in the right frame of mind it won't either happen. I have to view women as people.  Just I know that the second a girl gets into the car and the doors lock, I'll start to feel it. Is it possible to resolve the issue by my self? And when I am in such a situation with this pain, is the only way to releive myself through mas***?
All you guys are awesome!

feelingreallylost wrote on 23 May 2011 13:24:

In short, what's happening is your body getting "ready to go".  It happens to many people who put themselves into highly sexual situations over a sustained period of time, but have no release.

If what you say is taken at face value, you find yourself in relatively normal situations and this occurs fairly immediately.  That said, it's quite "normal" to get a "little high" when exposed to a light trigger.  This would mean that either your body responds heavily to mild stimulus, or your mind escalates normal situations into major stimulus.

Neither of these situations is normal, and you might do well to chat to a doctor - if indeed you are highly triggered by very mild stimulus.  This could actually be a medical condition (assuming that this is indeed very frequent).

If, however, you experience this once in a while (say once every few weeks) and it's after some fantasizing and mental drooling...  Then you have a classic case of "blue balls".  Your "mind" needs fixing (not in a bad way) - this could theoretically be done by you yourself, but might be more efficiently and comprehensively done with some help.

With regard to getting your perception of women fixed - you're in great company.  Including mine - this is a journey I am on myself.  Being aware of it is great, but perhaps reach out to people on here who can give you more guidance than I can.

I am assuming that pornography, general lust and masturbation is not otherwise an issue?



No - it will go away by itself.  Masturbation might make it go away faster, but will often be painful in itself, and leave you feeling rotten.  In my experience, it doesn't immediately solve the problem, but it makes it subside more quickly over time.  I find that the best thing to do is to ignore it and do something else altogether - something that will actually distract you.  Learning is great.  If that's not going to cut it, do something that will.  Dwelling on it will keep it constant.  You won't actually notice when it goes, it'll just go.  If it doesn't go after a few hours, consider medical advice. (what I am saying here is that refraining is painful, but possible - some people suggest ice/cold water - never tried that myself)

I feel that you are a special person.  The Yetzer Hora is trying to force you to act out by giving you a serious physical challenge.  It would seem that lust by itself isn't enough   I suspect he knows that you're otherwise going to beat him

This condition has been used to excuse all kinds of things, from rape to coercive sex to masturbation.  But honestly, it goes away with a little time and self-control.  The trick is to avoid it happening.  I have my own ways, but I think you'd be best off taking advice from people who might have better ones.

Edit:
In case nobody jumps in...  I will.  Against my better inclination.

When you are with someone (I'm taking a date as an example, you'll see why), and you feel "heated up" as you put it, consider the following:
-I am a Jew who has within me a literal piece of G-d.
-[Name] (not "she") is likewise a Jew who has within her a literal piece of G-d
-This makes us a kind of family.
-I must respect myself - if not for myself, then for the Neshama that is within me.
-I must likewise respect [name], because to do otherwise would be an affront to myself, to G-d and most importantly [name].
-I wonder what makes [name] interesting and unique as a person, and if we have any similar ideas.
-"Hello, [name] - tell me more about..."

Try that on for starters.  I'm sure more people will give you better and more general advice.  But if you can interest your brain in areas other than "She's a girl!  Yay!", you'll find the whole experience more rewarding and much less painful.

Apropos of nothing, I'll share my first experience with this subject here, and what I can take from it in hindsight.

I was 16, and very much obsessed by a girl whom I was good friends.  I pursued her somewhat, although nothing ever happened in the romance department.  But in my mind, she was to be an object of affection.  I spent an afternoon at her house, doing nothing special - hanging out and messing about with electronics.  Triggering stuff, right?

What was special about that afternoon is that we had a relative amount of time alone, and I could pursue her without interruption.

We didn't touch.  We didn't speak of anything sexual (she remains one of the least sexual people I know to date).  But by the end of the day, I was barely able to walk.  I won't go into my relief mechanism (back in the day), needless to say it was unsatisfactory, and unrewarding.  The pain subsided after time.

In hindsight, what I believe was happening was that my unconscious mind was saying "yes, you've got the object where you want it - get ready to go in for the kill".  My conscious mind was just enjoying the ride.  My outward appearance was (presumably) quite gentleman-like, if slightly attentive and unnaturally observant.

A friend, whom I thought I could grow to love, and for whom I had what I thought was a beautiful affection?  Well, I thought so.  In a way, I had deluded myself into thinking these things (I did, after all, fantasize sexually about her - I blocked that bit out).  What was really driving me was a rather strong lust.

At the time, I was confused, since I'm not certain that I was physically aroused for very long, if at all.  But my mind was racing along with my heart - just not where I could see it.

TheJester wrote on 23 May 2011 15:01:


I think think this is beautiful. Not only an amazing logical syllogism for someone in the throes of lust addiction, but for anyone dating anybody. When you have that "familial" connection with somebody, I think dating could become a new experience altogether.

When you're faced with this physical pain on a date, try to think positively about it. I may be totally off the mark here, and someone call me out if I am, but part of every lust is healthy. You are a male human being, given the wonderful and unwarranted gift of attraction to the opposite sex. Without it, there wouldn't really be a human race, and we were designed to react a certain way to ensure our survival. When you go on a date, it is vitally important that you are attracted to the woman sitting at the other side of the table. This reminds me of the extraordinarily true Ha'arah that R' Akiva Tatz has on marriage. There are three steps to every process in life.

1) Moment of revelation - A gift from above that lets us see how things could be if we could actually attain it. This is what's called romance in the Western World. According to R' Tatz, "love", "romance" and the western version of a relationship aren't fake. Contrary to what most buchurim hear about before they date, the attraction you feel towards a woman on a date is not just the YH trying to slip you up. It is a precious gift from H'. It is a brief flash of inspired ruach hakodesh that tells us what could be down the road if we work at it. It's important that we have this step, because the second step can be brutal.

2) Reality - H' takes away the initial joy and pleasure we received in step one, and lets us earn it. Anyone who's heard a great and inspirational mussar shmuez knows this feeling quite well. As the speaker exits stage left, we already feel like better people, we are ready to take on the world, and nothing can stop us. 20 minutes later, we haven't really made it very far, and we're usually back to square one. It's now up to us to to the work that we need to do to get back to the level we were at in step one.

3) transcendence - We've worked on ourselves to the point that any gains we have achieved have been our own (with a good dose of siyata dishmaya). the level we have achieved is truly ours, and ours to keep, and we can be eternally happy, in this world and the next, that we have worked through our nisyonos, and achieved the pleasure and joy that we felt way back in step one.

As any married guy will tell you, welcome to the world of relationships. The attraction and "chemistry" that you feel on a first date is a wonderful thing, and serves a purpose. Ultimately, though, it is fleeting, and typically the rug gets pulled out from under a couple's naive feet when they have finally committed their lives to each other. That's when the real work begins. The divorce rate in the secular world is so high purely because of this phenomenon. The rug gets pulled out, and suddenly a couple sees no reason to be together anymore. They might make a token try for a few years, or "stick together for the kids", but they're already determined that they must not be for eachother, and they were wrong to get together in the first place. It's easy to get stuck in that mentality whne your dating phase is about infatuation and physical attraction. It is un unbelievable important factor in a relationship, but the more you can channel that urge, tell yourself that "yes, I agree, I like the way this person makes me feel, physically, but that's only one part of the package. i need to get down to business and explore the many human aspects that need investigating on a meaningful date." Easier said than done, but if you can convince yourself that the attraction is useful instead of being ashamed of it, maybe that positive light will help you curb the more base aspects of it.

wow, that was way too long. I hope it helps, though :p

Jester and Musicman have shared some amazingly deep truths.

I must ask, though, how is the rest of your life going regarding shmiras eynayim and shmiras habris?  Don't answer if you don't feel ready to discuss these things, but they can certainly influence what happens when you're near a woman.