Yossi wrote on 26 Jun 2011 10:00:

hi Yossi!

you should feel at home here, you should feel
ben durdayah wrote on 09 Jan 2011 15:25:


i didn't think 'TheJester' had any negative connotations, i thought it meant something like a 'badchan', but congrats on taking good steps in any event.
wishing you continued hatzlocha
zs

Jester or Yossi (I like the new name by the way) you are among friends and helpers !

Kvetched

Sometimes I re-read some older posts and things strike me that I missed the first time around.

You wrote:

Yossi wrote on 11 Apr 2011 18:03:


I think this is part of the addictive self-delusion, thinking we actually have some sort of control because we managed not to act out for some period of time.  It's just like the smoker who says, "I've got no problem; I can quit!  I've quit hundreds of times!"

Really, we're totally out of control.

--Eye.

Eye.nonymous wrote on 26 Jun 2011 18:08:


Nice find.  Of course, the line before that reads "Compulsive would probably be more accurate, but I can safely stick with addict."

I don't really want to get hung up on wording, but what the hey.

Once upon a time, if I filled out an "are you an addict" test, the answer would have been a resounding yes.  Now?  for SA?  I strongly doubt it.  Simply because I have not exhibited any outward signs of this for some time now, and because I have learnt (to a great extent) to ignore or destroy thoughts that come to me.  Once, I made some of the biggest life-decisions and exercised some very, very poor judgment because of this behavior...  Now, I no longer do.

Does this mean that I was (a) never an addict, (b) still an addict, or (c) no longer an addict?  To be frank, I don't want to dwell upon it, unless I really need to know to help myself or others.  Okay, being more honest, I really want to know, so I know whether I can "move on" or whether I need to "do something different", or whether I need to "keep fighting/surrendering/shteiging/whatever".  But the part of me that is even more honest knows that this in itself is a distraction from living, and living well is what I need to do, above all else.

So what do I mean by control, and what do I mean by stopped?  And why do I say "yo-yo", as in, "feast & famine"?  Looking at the line before the one I quoted ("I'm not sure if I have specific addictions, but I get addicted to things.") and the line after("To what am I addicted?  Anything.  Anything that takes me from reality to fantasy."), I am talking about things that get me out of reality.  Escape.  It might once have been games or books.  It might once have been the pursuit of new highs through highly inappropriate sexual activity.  It might once have been learning!  This is to give some clarity to what I meant when I wrote the lines that you plucked out.

So yes - you make a very good point - perhaps I am an addict, perhaps I am kidding myself.  Perhaps I am deluding myself that I have control.  The way I see it, I can control how I act, but not what I am.

I don't really know what "addiction" is - black and white, or a sliding scale?  I don't really know how they stop - I know smokers and even a heroin addict who just "stopped".

Speaking specifically of my problem with SA, I do know that I hated my life where it was, and I made some changes to my circumstances (I call it cheating) to put myself in a position (I was done manipulating others, and decided to manipulate myself for a change) where it would be extremely difficult to "act out".  Is this recovery?  I don't believe so.  Am I "clean"?  Technically, yes.  But I have this idea that when you are "clean", the fight kind of goes away, but it doesn't.  I constantly feel that I am a step away from a word, a raised eyebrow, that once would have led to something horrible.  Each time I am in such a position, I am very aware that once, things would have been different, and I would have bitten at the bait.  I don't want that anymore.  But I don't know if it will ever go away.

Does that answer your thoughts?

Yossi wrote on 27 Jun 2011 09:11:


Whatever you call it, I think the only thing that matters is this:  Do you still need to be careful?  I think, even in the official SA literature, it says something like, "we don't claim to be experts on addiction, but viewing our problem in this way has been helpful for recovery."

And, what is recovery?  I know it's a lot more than just avoiding [external] triggers and not acting out.

The real triggers, I have found, is all the negative thoughts I carry around with me, and all the negative behaviors I display which reak havok on my life and, when life has gotten far enough out of control, I run to act out as an attempt to feel better.

So, I think real recovery is freedom from these thoughts and behaviors, which means an entirely different way of life.

Though the change is a radical one, change is gradual.

--Eye.

Eye.nonymous wrote on 27 Jun 2011 10:17:


This is exactly my point   I think that I will always need to be careful.




And this is exactly what I am trying to understand.  So far, I can see it is to live live richly and honestly, with Derech Eretz and Yiras Shamayim in healthy doses.  It is having the right advice and guidance when I need it, and not keeping all my stresses and pressures inside me.  It is being able to admit a problem before it becomes a problem.  It is being able to stand up and fight, or walk away, at the appropriate time.  It is being able to admit I am not perfect, and sometimes wrong.  That, really, is what has changed within me (to an imperfect extent) over the past 15 years.

But...  Old habits die hard.  And that is why I feel that I must always remain vigilant, and even fight the urges that will naturally pop themselves up.  And it really isn't easy.




You have a degree in philosophy, right?

Yossi wrote on 27 Jun 2011 14:16:


No, I just picked this stuff up here.  I think on-line hours at GYE are transferrable as class credits to many recognized accredited institutions of higher education.

--Eye.