yikes, 911, need to add one to make it 912.

[list]After continuing to rread through the BIG-BOOK, I have gleaned a slightly clearer understanding of the 12 steps(As it would pertain to a level 5 addict). 

• Even proving an extended period of sobriety, on the basis of self will, never cures my inability to control with lust.


• Lust addicts cannot live in abstinence alone, unless science perfects the 'test tube baby'. Human Procreation requires lust.


• A spiritual existence provides a solution to both live with lust, and overcome it.


• This sickness will continue to destroy me, in both this world and the next. And I will be held accountable for not submitting myself to this meathod, or any other effective cure.

Are you ready an an 'unscripted' and painfully open post.

The following probably poses no benefit to me, however iit will hopefully benefit some newcomer addict who still tinkers with 'staying clean' (...for a week! ha) and won't avail themself to REAL help (12 steps)

My life is falling to peices, but  I can't keep my hands off myself, and my mind runs wild will fantasies of s#&. So I play sick for 2 weeks and simply skip kollel to indulge in lust.

I don't even have open internet!! I can't see a prono no matter how hard i try!! and i'm still here saving snipits of nude pics to my computer.                If you saw me, you would spit on me, I'm a sick pervert.

A week ago you would have found me "holding on tight" counting days of sobriety, just another 1, and another, wow that was easy. But it was all USELESS, even the alcoholics in the AA book could do amonth, untill they fell harder than ever before.                              Ah bechasdei hashem, us Sex addicts, once we have an o^&asm the fun is over, and we can collect the pieces of our 'sobriety', until the next one (15 minutes later).

i just spent 2 hours m^*^*ting to pics that wheren't even good enough for me to ejoy them! because I couldn't get any better. Honestly i would even have done it, even if all i had to look at was the עצבה קטנה of a woman  (what can i honestly even lust about her finger, but I would make-up something).                Do you all see what is wrong with me? I do, but I can't stop, don't want to stop, and I will not let anyone try and stop me. I'm hooked and enjpoying it!

Then in a few days (hopefully) the guilt will set in, and I might do 1 or 2 half baked efforts at a sembolic jesture of hope.        Ha,  yeh right.

Do I hear a rock hitting bottom  :.  I hope so .  Falling is part of the process of getting better.  We don't usually get better until we have to.  I can feel your pain.  I hope it is a sign of good things to come.

What makes it so agonizing is that we tell ourselves "How can I say I want to stop if I'm enjoying it?" Nobody is forcing me and it's pleasurable, so obviously I don't want to stop.

But that's not true. When you are in the grasp of lust,
you are out of your mind,
you are crazy,
uou are insane,
you are totally out of control.

And the biggest proof of this is that the second you satisfy your lust and temporarily break out from under its control you feel miserable.

That's the real you.

So stop with the feelings of how terrible you are, that's your lust trying to keep you in its back pocket. Trust me you are good, so put thos ethought aside and ask Hashem to pull you out of the hole you've climbed into.

Me3 wrote on 25 Nov 2011 15:11:


Something interesting I learnt from Dov.
      We will N-E-V-E-R recover if we don't express ourselves openly.


After writing the above post,(and I have another one to add), I felt weird. Because in all my days on GYE I refrained from saying the words  "masturbation" "orgasm" erection" וכו' וכדומה    always replacing it with a לשון נקי. As a direct result of that, I viewed my actions as a פגם בקרושה, and lacking שלמות.      I'm a sexaholic, a walking lust addict who would even . . . if the 'opportunity' arose. That's not a ניסיון that's plain out perversion.         

I never saw myself to be the pervert I am, because I 'whitewashed' my actions in subtle language. No kidding a mussar sefer is just as good as a SA meating, because I am lying to myself. If I look at myself in the light of truth, I  need help. I see that I am sick!

Many people waste years on the forum, davkah because we use nice words. Baruch hashem! If we would all stare the facts plain in the face, we would feel much more stupid, much bigger perverts, and more like an עברין than the צנועים we aren't.

כל כך התרגלתי להשיב תגובות לכל אחיבו בני ישראל, בפורום שלהם, שקשה לי להחליף את הכתבים שלי לאנגלית. אבל לא נראה לי שאף אחד תבין אותי, אפילו לישראלים זה קשה

So I'll switch to english.

I only have 2 active threads on the site, this one and my "wall of (shame)". I try to pick which one it belongs in every time. So for the benefit of newcomers, and veterans alke who gte chizuk watching other people's process of recovery, i pu this one here.

Withoiut further ado:        OK so i finnaly joined the GYE phone confrences, and they seem more anonymous than the forum! Anyhow DuvidChaim gives me more insight than anything I 'self prescribed' from the forum. I'm an IDIOT for not joining years ago. As I told my wife, I have been sweeping this addiction under the covers for YEARS, even in GYE i didn't realy do enough to recover. If I don't surrender my wills today, i'm a שוטה!            Why live the problem when i can live the solution? Do I need my life to be absolute hell? isn't partial hell already enough?

I was arguing recovery back and forth with my wife, and we came-out with the perfect משל. Now my appartment is 4 flights from the street level, bekitzur it's a long way to jump. immaginbe being forever locked in my apparment with nothing to eat but bad tasting food, with a bad hashgacha (נעשה כהתר= "kosher"). the only way out is jumping off my balcony, on the sole belief that hashem himself is supposed to catch me and hold me up there in thin air.
                The harcore addict would be נמשל to a burning house, and no way of escape other than jiumping.    The low level addict, to a cozy air conditionbed house, mybe alittle stuffy, with a smelly garbadge can and a leaky toilet. But overall the food is good and he can stay cramped up in there forever.

I love this משל, because i truly identify with it, and it accounts for all the arguments both my YH and yatzer tov have.
                    Why should I jump if it's not so bad?
                                    because a better life awaits me out there?    :-\      still not sure i fi wana do it. Plus it's VERY SCARY. I am a very 'capable' and controlling person, i don't play G-D i tel him exactly how to do it.    --for me to surrender?

Bekitzur I just need to get MORE into the community and join together with the other people who are living witness to promise. "Jump... and i will catch you".      And then they ontinue to live their lives 'in thin air'.


If anyone/everyone doesn't understand the mashal I think that it is very worthwhile, and would be willing to explain it better in full-coherent sentences.

Where are you DOV, I am living at rock bottom, and I am ready to surrender everything to Hashem. My parnasa, my wife, my daughter, my kollel, my learning, my ego, my self controll, my כבוד, my future, my hashkafos, my computer, my pornography, masturbation, voyaging, fantasy
אתה הראתה לדעת כי ה' הוא האלוקים אין עוד מלבדו

I cannot do anything but masturbate, veiw porn, masturbate, fantisise, lie, hide, veiw porn, and nothing else. I will not daven, not at a minyan either, and not within the zman, simply not at all. I won't go to kollel, I won't go to work, I live all day for porn, and i don't even have open acess.

I now let go.....    :'(

Well to keep to the story: After a long talk with [GUARD] on the hotline, i finnaly made a TaFSiK shvuah. And for the same reason I necver cuddled in bed with my wife while she was a nidah, I wouldn't break this. No I cannot stop myself from veiwing porn, however by requiring myself to make a day-long shlep to the kosel and learn there and shlep back... I am simply too lazy to break it.              Simmilar to stopping myself by thinking what it will feel like afterwards, the mear mention of shlepping so much, and how wiped I will be afterwards, is a strong detterant. No it's obviosly not a FIX, since the moment my wife take a dip in the mikva, I'll be a lusting beast once again. the first drink is all it takes!


However a problem I haven't yet dealt with, is RestlessnesIrritabilityDiscontent . The 3 feelings that I do not know how to mannage with, other than a rampant spree! For that I need to use DC's tools more. A&W moments wouls work wonders for me, when I'm in the mood and having an overal spiritual high.    Stories work good especially when i'm in the dumps.      And checking my core values is simply too scary!!! And honestly after I realised that all my efforts and decision in the last 6 years where one big STORY, really I don't know what I want to do any more.


Still TRuCKING,
  and trying to KUTgW

Can you do exercise? It can do wonders for RID.

KUTGW!

I wish I had something helpful to say.  I know a lot of guys come here and are able to "bottom out from on top".  That never worked for me.  I had to have life itself back me into a terrified corner.  Bottomed out.  It was dead serious.  Same with food, getting up in the morning to daven on time, etc.  i haven't ever really been able to get free of addictiveness.  Everytime I think I've plugged up the last leak, there's another one.  Today I blurted out something really stupid in shul.  Total ego screech.  Now I gotta take a real look at that desperate place again.  I guess it doesn't end.  Dunno,

Maybe you just need to get yourself into some really major big trouble, hurt somebody you deeply love really badly.  Make your daughter confused and frightened around you because she caught you when you didn't know she was there.  Dunno.  But I get the sense that you've been successful at controlling your eyes, mind, etc.  and all that's been for naught.  More self will run riot.  So now you're throwing all to the wind and really understanding that you can't/won't use controls.  It works for a lot of guys and no RID builds up.  For me it was just the stretching of the spring till the next spruuung.

May you bottom out without any consequences to those around you except that they don't get to have a husband or father because he's indulging himself in tomatoes for a while.  May it be that simple and gentle.

guardureyes wrote on 10 Dec 2011 22:25:



Ah, just like back in the good old days!

חלום חלמתי ופותר אין אותו...
"I had a dream..." last night, where I succumed to the urge and started veiwing my favorite porn images. My body started pumping mass amounts of adrenaline and dopamine, the rush was exhilirating. Then I told myself not to do this. So I woke-up and cleared my mind, trying desperately not to let m yself feel the "rush".

Although it was 'only' a dream, I still got  the chemical rush of a true spree! In the past these things ALWAYS proved to be a warning of upcoming נסיונות. I have to be on high alert for the next few days. Derech Agav, my TaFSiK shevuah is running out this week, gotta renew it before that happens (my wife has been asigned with that responsibility).

So i came to make some posts, read other's struggles, and try to become alittle more human, at least for today.

Restless Itrritable and Discontent.....



I tried the forum, added a few numbers to my post count, ignored the poor and struggling israelis who I wasn't interested in helping, read the AA book which i am sick of and hate how it is written, felt rotten, read the SA BIG BOOK, and ahhhhh. Alittle self-discovery, and a shmooze with the mrs, next you know I understanmd what's making me tick!


  This morning I was unseccessful trying to make a living. the klaf wasn't, the kulmus wouldn't come-out, the himidity, the sofer... everything was going wrong. Finnaly after a few meager lines I gave-up, which wouldn't evenm cover rent if i was writing for real. RID kicked in, because I thoughof a better plan than even G-D himself could devise ח"ו (i'm not stuck-up).  I thought it would be beter for me to progress in my trade, and get my megilah over with, than to... not?


instead hashem knew it was better for me to read the SA book, and thing more about the tools I have and the ones I don't like. As a result I came to a re-understanding of "STORIES", and how making them face the 4 queastions works.
      By the nature of an addiction we are incapable of managing, dealing or feeling the ups-downs of life. As a result, a simple incorrect thought will easilly avalanch into storng feelings that will overwhelm us.            As addicts we know only one solution for these feelings, our "getting our fix". This tool  allows us to difuse the problem at it's root, claming us down, and allowing us to regain a state where we have controll to live our lives by our better judgement.


Still alittle jittery, but gaining alot from the experience.

I am having my internet shut off. 
Just gmail, and a DSL line.

thank you Guard, love you all.

you can reach me by email

Why?  With the loss of my most precios drug, I was restless Irritable and Discontent. By using the forum, and email, and almost nothing else. i effectibvely numbed the pain. becuase although GYE doesn't have so many pics, and none of them porn, patrt of my addictions include the computer itself. The controll it gives me, and the soothing sence of security that I find in touching the keyboard.
      I need to surrender the computer, and in doing so oave the way for a new life, offline, and productive.