Very compelling conversation

I too found this conversation to be very moving.  I had a similar dillema years ago.  I did not ask anyone.  I davened for a small out of town community with barely a minyan.  I was plagued with doubt, but needed the money, and very few in the community were even frum.  I'm not saying if it was right or wrong.  Just giving the facts and my thoughts.  Anyway, the year I davened, I stayed clean THE WHOLE YEAR!  I obviously didn't overcome my problem, but at least the next year on the yomim noraim, I could say that I was not motzei zera levatalah (bemayzid) for a full year.  I always wondered if somehow being shliyach tzibbur carried me that year.

So why don't you do it every year?

Gibbor where is this minyan do they need a baal tefillah this year?Maybe we ca reak up all the davenings and give it out to different people?How much would they charge for the rights to the amud?

It was a one time deal.  I had a friend that became a rav in an out of town community.  (He has since moved on to bigger and better).  The person that normally davened, couldn't for some reason that year.  Where I live, there are plenty of people more rauy than me to daven.

In the Shaliach Tzibur's Tefilla before Mussaf (Hinini) , he specifically asks that his Tefillos should not be rejected because of his sins "Ki Chote'a U"Poshe'a Ani".

Do you think Chazal were joking when they they made up the Tefilla?

That does not mean that you should not seek out the "best" ba'al tefilla you can get.  Obviously, based on our limited knowledge of who is really rauy.  We can only judge by what we see.

G-d bless this forum and Guard for putting this together.
I've been tortured by my feelings of unworthiness each time I had to take the omud.
This conversation is so honest and refreshing!

So, you are not perfect.  Neither is anyone in this group, but neither is ANYONE ELSE.

Go before the Ribonno Shel 'Olam with an open  honest heart, pour out your prayers, and serve the kehillah.  If they did not want you/need you, they would not ask you.  You do not know their sins, they do not know yours. Maybe, in some way that you cannot recognize, you are at a higher level than they, or you have something they admire or need. Think about it: you are here because you know you have a weakness, you admit you have it and you are working on it.  That is very powerful.

Perhaps, also, this is a  gift toward recovery that you can use in the following manner: After the Yomim Noraim, when you are tempted. ask yourself, "Is this the correct behavior for someone who lead the kehillah in Prayer?" Perhaps by having that to ask yourself, it will aid in  your self-control.


I have found that coming here is of immense help.  You must be coming for the same reason. Tempted and not acting, or even acting with less frequency are signs of growth.  That is what teshuvah is about and that is why it is such a great gift.  Small steps can lead to great things;  Moshe climbed Har Sinai one step at a time.

Have you guys read this entire thread? Or just the title & last few posts?

This is an Halachic Shaalo & should be laid before an Halachic Authority. Our personal mushy feeling & interpretations of the tefilos are entirely irrelevant to the Halacha...

Read all the posts and no this is not a halachic shaila (unless questions like "Can you use milk for the four cups on Pesach?" are deemed to be "halachic" queries...) This is actually not even a question, but rather an utterly sincere cry from a true Oved Hashem of the real kind....  I posed this "non-question" to a well known mashgiach. His response? "Halevai all our balei tefilah would be as self honest as this person."

zev_17_years wrote on 05 Sep 2011 20:24:


The Poskim seem to disagree with your opinion.....



zev_17_years wrote on 05 Sep 2011 20:24:

Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 23 Aug 2010 16:24:


Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 30 Aug 2010 15:35:

Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 06 Sep 2010 16:34:


So now it is 2-2.  ;D


Which proves:
Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 06 Sep 2010 16:34:

well, there is such a thing as a hamotzi z"l tfilosoi einoi ne'ahne (I think it's because a person like this is technically in chairem chachomim?) so would you want him to ask on your behalf?
forget moral stuff, just technically- his own tfila doesn't get answered kal v'hoimer...
unless you are toileh it in his "t'shuvo b'rega chodo" because of his t'nai "al mnas sh'ani tzaddik gomur"....Maybe making such a t'nai would be pre-requisite....so for that you taka need a psak of a Rov Moire hoyro'o, men tor nisht paskenen al daas atzmoi...
I'm just mulling over things that were brought up in previous posts....

benidue arboem yoem
so maybe if 40 days clean then is allowed

Thanks Jack, I was just looking it up (so I don't put a foot in mouth, as I like to do):
Ohr Tzaddikim 24 (as quoted in Shaar Taharo in Taharas Yisroel):
HZ"L nidun b'miso oylomis r"l (so that's forever) and ein tiflosoi nishmaas 40 days.