This is my first post on this website.  I have been getting the emails for a while, and i have checked out the website, but i never really felt like i had to post.  but after continuing to struggle after so many times of thinking "I'm cured", and reading how talking with others has helped so many, i thought maybe just getting something out there could help.
My story is similar to many, and different as well.  I started struggling with internet pornography in high school, and have been battling ever since, through a year and a half in Yeshiva in Israel, through college and Yeshiva in America, and now through my first years of marriage.  I am 23 and have been married for 3 years.  Like many of you, I have trouble guarding my eyes, and many time when I just speak to a woman, I have crazy thoughts in my head.  I learn all the time, and so many people probably think I'm so frum, and only i know that i am a fraud.
In addition, there is much added guilt for me.  Since we've been married, my wife and i cannot have tashmish properly.  she has immense pain, and therefore it only happens for us once in a blue moon, and it inevitably ends with her crying.  also, we have been going through fertility treatment and have as of yet not been able to get pregnant.  i know these troubles are probably directly related to my disgusting straying with the internet and such, and i usually can only stay clean a couple of days.  the guilt is huge, and i still cannot stop.

i'm not sure what i am looking for exactly with this post, i just thought that if maybe i posted my story finally, something would happen.
sincerely, first timer,
-JD

Hi JD,

Welcome to the forum. Feel free to post any time about anything. We all feel your pain. and are not afraid to express it. Dont forget to daven because everyhting is ultimately controlled by Hashem. Dont feel guilty about your past. learn from it in order to change what would happen in a similar situation in the future. Thinking about your old bad ways wont get you better. It will make you more depressed and cause you to Chas Veshalom to fall again. Think about the potential that you have that not many poeple have. You have the opportunity to really make your mark in life. Imagine if you get up to Shomayim and as you get there Hashem is looking at you with a smile ear to ear because of where you came from and where you ended up in life. Yes you were once a person who acted on bad thoughts, but hashem put you there. And now your a talmid Chacham who no longer acts on these same thoughts. Dont give up.

In regards to your wife, don't feel responsible. I know thats probaby easier for me to write than it is for you to actually feel. BUT YOU CANT BLAME YOURSELF. I want you to go back and read that line slowly and carefully. That is just not a way to improve and grow in life. remember hashem put you in this situation. And I dont really have any knowledge of your wife's isue, but if you daven anything can happen.

Stay strong JD and if you need someone to maybe do a chat with I'm here you can email me at Yiddle2@gmail.com

JD wrote on 17 Jun 2009 14:57:


JD

Well done for posting, I just want to share that I really relate to what you are going through and compliment you on being honest on such a difficult and private subject.  What you are sharing is exactly how my first six years of marriage were (I am now married over 10 years), we tried all sorts of things and even went to speak to Rabbonim who were very helpful in trying to help one suggested my wife drinking wine beforehand to relax another suggested taking painkillers.  We went to Doctors too but nothing helped.

However four or so years ago I started to get sober and work on my sex addiction, I would state that 10 years ago when I got married there was no internet and if I wanted to act out I had to go and buy the stuff and my acting out more sporadic until the day we got the internet at home.  Anyway, I noticed that our intimate life seemed to recover with my sobriety.  For me I feel that my wife knew or sensed deep down even when we first got married that something was amiss with me, even if consciously she could not express it.  And her subconscious was protecting her by not allowing us to be intimate.  Conversely  I know that when I am active in any level of sex addiction I find it impossible to intimate with my wife as I am addicted to lust to the unreal to the forbidden to the fantasy and my wife is real and the two cannot coexist.

My experience is that my wife always knows intuitively when I act out, I give of a vibe of shame, guilt and disgust, now she knows whats happened and will confront me, but before I came into recovery she had no idea what was going on, living with an addict is like trying to live with a whirlwind, and my wife was extremely frustrated and had no idea why.  The nature of this addiction is bound to mess one’s intimate life up no end.  Maybe one day I will share about my experiance of abstinence within marriage to get over lust.

So dear JD, this is my experience is that acting out affects one on so many levels and seeps into every fibre of my essence and only with sobriety will life start to turn around.  Hang in there my friend recovery is possible, keep things simple, and as they say first things first, stay sober for 24 hours at a time and the answers will come.

JD - welcome to the GUE forum!

Have you consulted a physician?  Relations should not be physically painful after 3 years of marriage.  Of course, there is the emotional side of it, and London addressed that point very well.

Hi JD, Welcome to our posting community.  I am the admin of this forum. You have come to the right place. You did a good move by posting your story, you'll get lots of good advice and support. I am sorry to hear about your wife. This is no simple "package" that Hashem has given you. BUt he surely chose carefully to whom to give difficult jobs. He trusts you.

You are not a FRAUD in your Yiddishkeit. You just have a disease, like we all did here.

There are two prerequisites to beginning to heal from this addiction. One is admitting you have a problem, and two is wanting to get help. You have already done both of those. Now comes step three, actually getting the help!

If you've read a little bit through this forum, I’m sure you'll quickly realize that you are not alone and that we get cries for help like yours many times a day, both by e-mail and on the forum.

You've been going through this cycle of addiction for a number of years already... I'm sure you've tried to get up many times, only to fall again. It doesn't matter that you may have managed to stay clean for longer periods here and there, it's the overall pattern that shows this is an addiction.

We could offer you lots of great Chizuk and advice right now, but it would last only a few days and then wear off. Instead, we want to help you in a way that will be much more effective and systematic.

We put a lot of effort into writing up handbooks that contain all the tools to breaking free of this addiction, in progressive order. These are tools that we in the GYE community have gathered together - through hundreds of people's experiences over the years. These tools can help anyone, no matter what stage of addiction they might be at. Whether someone is just struggling a little, or whether they have tried countless times to break free with all types of advice and tricks, these handbook will be able to guide them on the right path. (See below for links to the handbooks).

By reading the handbooks and exploring what tools you've tried and which you haven't - we can work together and discuss a battle plan for you (along with the others on the forum) step by step, tool by tool. This will give us a clear "Framework" to work in, and will help you make progress, slowly but surely for the long term - and not just some "great" advice that will quickly fade away...

We are here for you, and we will do our very best to offer chizuk and advice and help you along for as long as it takes, but let's do it within a systematic framework so that the progress can be outlined and mapped, and you will finally be able to break free of this endless cycle of addiction...

Please right click on the links below and select "Save Link/Target As" to download the handbooks to your computer.

1) The GuardYourEyes Handbook
This Handbook details 18 suggested tools and techniques, in progressive order, beginning with the most basic and fundamental approaches to dealing with this addiction, and continuing down through increasingly earnest and powerful methods. For the first time, we can gauge our level of addiction and find the appropriate tools for our particular situation. And no matter what level our addiction may have advanced to, we will be able to find the right tools to break free in this handbook!

2) The GuardYourEyes Attitude
The Attitude Handbook details 30 basic principles to help us maintain the proper attitude and perspective on this struggle. Here are some examples: Understanding what we are up against, what it is that Hashem wants from us, how we can use this struggle for tremendous growth, how we can deal with bad thoughts, discovering how to redirect the power of our souls, understanding that every little bit counts, learning how to bounce back up after a fall, and so on and so forth...

Obviously though, just reading the handbooks alone won't be enough. They don't have "magical" words in them . They simply lay down the tools before you, so that you can use those tools with careful thought, patience and determination. Very quickly you will come to see and believe that it CAN BE DONE!

Rabbi Twerski always says that this illness is like a spiritual cancer. And what will a person not do to get better from cancer? Nothing should stand in his way! To recover from this illness, we have to be ready to put in at least as much time as we spent acting out...

Read the PDF files linked above, as well as the tips on our website and FAQ pages, and read through the threads on this forum and through the archives of past Chizuk e-mails sent out.

The underlying secret to the success of so many people on our website, is that we learn to stop fighting the lust head-on. It is too strong for us to overpower alone. Instead, we learn how to give over the fight to Hashem, and how to side-step the lust, using carefully thought out techniques, boundaries and fences. To this end, a good internet filter is a very important first step. Please see this page for many great filter options. And I can hold the password for you. See this page for how to do it!

May Hashem be with you!

JD, welcome,

I hope you dont mind me coming from behind the mechitza. Does it help that Im old enough to be your Mom?!

I too am new here, so I will leave the brilliant advice for the real warriors. The truth is, simply by joining and asking for help, you are also now a part of the army of front line soldiers fighting the YH.

Personally, I want to address the guilt you are feeling regarding your wife. I'm sure the two of you are getting help for both medical problems, so I wont even head there. Just know you are not alone, unfortunately other frum couples are going through the same gehenim. My own daughter and son-in-law for one, with both the problems you discuss. I too felt tremendous guilt, feeling that Hashem is punishing them because of my addiction (Remember, Im a mother; we can feel guilty about anything!) Before that, I felt guilty about such issues within my own marraige.

BUT, I think this line of logic is off. If we follow the explanation that SA is an illness, then guilt should not be a part of the equation. Would you feel 'guilty' if it was Chas v'shalom diabetes for example? If your wife was the one with diabeties, would you blame her? Feeling guilty wont change anything -SEEKING 'MEDICAL' HELP WILL. The illness is Hashems part, getting medical treatment is OURS. Thats where GYE comes in - SA hospital.

Point 2: Hashem doesnt 'punish' a person for someone elses aveiros. Even if we were to go along with the line of thought that your wifes medical problems are because of your 'sins', where does that leave her? I may be way off, but the Tatte in Shamayim that I know, is chesed. If this nisayon has been sent to you as a couple, then you deserve it AS A COUPLE. For some reason, BOTH of you, together, and independantly, are being tested this way. A real cheshbon hanefesh is needed of course, but after that, you must trust that He is doing it for both of you (I purposely did not write "because" of both)

I would love to hear what everyone else on this board think of this. Am I way off?

Either way, JD, we are all davening for you, and your wife, and may Hashem send you both a refuahs hanefesh and refuahs haguf b'karov u'b'kalut.

Welcome JD-
We are thrilled to have you join us on the forum. As Guard wrote, just posting here is a step in the right direction. So please keep writng and we will keep reading and we will try to be Mechazaik each other along the way. As everyone here has been saying, there is no place or purpose for guilt now. We are all people who have been struggling in this area and many of the posters are very special people. Looking forward to hearing from you soon!

heiliger JD,

Here is avaremer shalom aleichem!

read my thread in "break free", it's called "im new here"

I promise you there is no magic no KOONTZ no lachash no heebi-jeebi

It just works

this site is testimony to the gemara "habah lit-aher missayin oso"

you are done with "haba litameh poschin lo"

that was so yesterday. Been there done that

put a smile on your face

get to work. We have a new soldier that was snatched from the menuval's clutches

i dont give medical or halachic advice

I have a fine SHMEK when some one needs a super duper dose of chizzuk

so welcome aboard, we are drinking woodford reserve toasting a l'chaim to welcome you

herring and kichela are in the back room

t-o-ameha ( ok efshar litaken TOI-ah-meh- huu) will be served tomorrow

humble and happy
bardichev

I knew I would make you LAUGH!!!

JD,

We all feel your pain.  B"H, the above posts were filled with lots of wonderful words and I will try not to overlap too much. 

Regarding your feelings of being a fraud, think of the following words which I recently posted to one of our holy warriors:
People in these situations often get confused who the "real" self is.  Is the external self the real one or is the one who does terrible aveiros behind closed doors the real one.  We like to convince ourselves that the real self is the one behind closed doors, and the one on the outside is a fake.  We are FAKING the world.  But this is not true.  Because, when do we feel like our true selves?  Usually, the self on the outside is the one that brings satisfaction.  When we are with other people learning torah, etc.  So the fake YOU is the one behind closed doors.  Remember this.  Realizing this, will help you catapult out. It makes it much easier to simply shake off when we remind ourselves, "that is simply not me.  How could it be that I am doing this.  It makes no sense."


Regarding you issues with your wife:
I too had this issue on and off for my first few years(I am now 11 years married ).  It was always very difficult.  I agree with London that when the addiction is down, the easier things go.  And I think one of the reasons is another issue London mentioned; and that is the idea of being relaxed.  When the addiction is down, we learn to become less physical and more emotional.  When we relate to our wives with REAL love, they can feel it and become more relaxed.  I have seen this in my own life.  So give yourself patience in this area as you learn to heal.  This has been a major avodah of mine for over a year.  I realized that as much as I loved my wife, my desire for relations was more physical than emotional.  If I feel that way, my wife will feel me that way.  But, B"H i have learned to desire expressing love and feeling love.  This took honesty with my own feelings.  Before coming together, I say a kapital tehillim to ask hashem to keep my mind focused on the right intentions, for the sake of love.   

The other thing that is very important is learning to being sensitive to your wife in these situations.  When I learned to truly feel her pain and be sensitive to possible situations, it made our whole relationship a lot more positive.  Without that true caring, my wife would express resentment towards me.  B"H, it has been many years since we have experienced these issues.     

Regarding your guilt,
I had a whole list of things that I "caused" because of my addiction.  Like everyone has been saying on the thread, I had to learn to get past it. We all learned here on GYE that guilt does not lead to recovery.  It only encourages you look at yourself as worthless and therefore encourages to do more.  You must do the opposite.  To begin recovery you must remind yourself of your true self value.  You must remind yourself of your potential.  You must remind yourself that this is not who YOU really are, like I mentioned above.



London, thanks for sharing. I, too, had this opportunity of abstinence within marriage to get over lust.  During those months, I grew to such heights, I was actually nervous to be together again.  It helped me remove all thoughts of lust and physicality.  I literally became a new person.  I was able to view my wife with purer thoughts than ever.

We are all with you in your pain and looking forward to your spiritual recovery and your wife's physical recovery. 

Lover of all Jews,
Yaakov

I really thank everyone for responding.
I wasn't sure what i was looking for, but already twice today when i felt the urge to go looking at things on the computer, i came to the forum instead to read responses to the post.
(yes bardichev, i did laugh).
London, and others who have had the issues with being with your wife, i also have been to many doctors who don't know what causes her pain.  has any doctor ever found anything that has helped?  without getting to much into it, basically she has immense pain during and afterwards.  did your situation really get fixed when you fixed shmiras habris?
let me know, any info will be helpful.
Thanks.

Hi JD,

It's always awesome to see somebody make a breakthrough and release themselves properly. Just reading your first post was terrifically enlightening.

I am very new here, but two things occurred to me after reading your post:




The workings of Hashem are far too complicated for us to understand. (ki lo machshevosai machshevosheichem...) Obviously an aveiro creates a negative effect above. But although certain indicators may be placed on earth by Hashem to allow us to determine which areas He thinks require a bit of work, one can never claim to be responsible for these indicators, however apparently glaring the connection with our actions. There is no need for guilt about your marital problems, even if you are doing something that seems to carry with it a punishment directly related to the aveiro. Proceeding without the guilt, and just concentrating on clearing up the problem is much easier and more efficient.

On another note, when I got married, tashmish was practically impossible too. In fact, when our first child was conceived, it was almost immaculate. (Am I allowed to say that word on this forum?  ;D) My wife also registered intense pain. After five years it has slowly worn off (and we also checked with Rabbis, Drs etc). I think essentially the problem was just extreme tension due to various background/childhood reasons. The solution was simply to spend as much time as possible before tashmish (approx 15min) just being sensitive and talking calmly together without making any physical overtures whatsoever. The results were not instantaneous, but it did the trick eventually. This is whilst small some progress was being made in my areas of addiction, of which my wife is and was blissfully unaware. I imagine this is blindingly obvious to you, or anyone else who reads this, but if there is the faintest chance it can be to anyone's advantage it will be worthwhile.

bs"d

This thread brings tears to my eyes with thankfulness and hope.

JD, I don't know the exact situation with your wife, but i know about a couple who had a hard time having relations and have been helped. I will ask R'Guard to send you my email address, maybe what helped them can help you too.

May HaShem free you and all of us from our addictions!

thank you all very much.
i really appreaciate all the help

Hi JD

I was thinking about this thread and was told by a doctor when I went throught this parsha, that it may be possible that my wife could have suffered some sort of trauma that could cause this.  You should seek medical / pyscological advise.  In the mean time work on getting well yourself one day at a time.

London