How to get started again: reflect on the fact that you are in harm's way. The more you do it, the more you want to do it. And if it does get out of control then it can kill your marriage (your wife can tell what you desire.) You are not special, so even if it's not out of control now it can get that way, as you can see from this forum. Besides that, Hashem hates this sin - but you can read all about that if you wish. That's motivation.

Write down which thoughts triggered the arousal that eventually brought you down. Put a fence in place to protect yourself in the future. That is a concrete thing that you can do to help yourself at the time you need it.

If you have a lude thought, or you take a second look at a woman in the street, try to feel bad about it and say you are sorry. That is teshuva. If the regret is sincere it will turn it off.

DovInIsrael wrote on 17 Apr 2010 22:25:
"We stop fighting everything and everybody." - AA (see "Doctor Heal Thyself!", in member stories)

I heard you loud and clear Dov, thanks for the tip. I wasn't planning on working through the minutae (did i spell that right?) with her but it might be that she could start behaving differently in one area which would makes things a little easier and she is open to hear the fruits of my discussions with my therapist and try stuff out.

I think you're probably on to something regarding realising a bigger hole after yom tov, although it may also be coz of different schedules over yom tov, the opportunities to be alone and let the y'h have a good go are more limited than on a regular week. So I lull myself into a false sense of security thinking I'm really improving when really the tests just weren't there so much, so when they come back, they're triple as powerful coz its been a week and it comes as a surprise.

I don't really know much about where you are, but it really sounds that you are sincere, and that's a big brocha right there. Hatzlocha with yourself, your precious relationship, and with all your efforts.

I just fell again   Ive been stuck in a cycle of about 3 days clean then fall since my first fall about 2 weeks ago. I dont really know why exactly im in the rut but i dont think now is the right time to think about it. I think I've gotta get my mind off it, pick myself up, be proud to be part of the am hanivchar and part of this holy community of gye and smile and be nice to people and make it till the end of the day.

Tomorrow is a new day and I will think about it and hopefully post my thoughts when my head isn't all cloudy.

Once you fall, it becomes harder to pick yourself up, for a variety of reasons. I'd say focus on each day - realize that even being clean one day, today, right now, is beautiful and incredibly valuable!

a random assortment of my thoughts:

Since I've joined GYE bH, I bounce back a lot quicker than I used to after a fall, Im able to treat it as a passing glich in the overall trend rather than the overall trend.

I am by nature an anxious worrying type and since joining Ive been much calmer and more relaxed.

Ive started to accept that it is a lifelong journey of progression and Im not going to recover from one day to the next, which in turn helps me to get back up after a fall and keep going.

My last few falls started when I was alone with nothing to occupy me, on the computer in college, driving around by myself (the streets in the summer...) or frustrated that my wife is having trouble becoming tehora.

My therapist (who is a rabbi and was trained in addictions by rabbi abraham j twerski) told me about about a book of rabbi twerskis where he says that a lot of addictions are caused by a lack of spirituality - he calls it spirituality deficiency syndrome. My last good runs (36 & 21 clean days) were from selichos through succos & pesach and he reckons that Im craving spiritual highs and turn to lust when theres a void. He suggested to think of ways to increase my 'jewish highs'. Im not enjoying my night seder (im in law school during the day) and as its my only proper seder its very frustrating that its not fulfilling so Im gonna think about changing that around. He also suggested appreciating life, taking 10 minutes a day to appreciate the sunset or trees or colours in the sky or something to make it real - if you've got something real that your enjoying, it keeps you further away from fantasy.

When I have a productive day Im much calmer and in control, if Im not productive i suppose i get restless and frustrated which makes me more susceptible.

summary (sort of..) when Im spiritually fulfilled, productive & occupied im ok, but there are gonna be times that im alone, bored depressed, frustrated, unoccupied and spiritually low and I have to think of ways to protect myself then.

if anyone is still reading after that monologue - you deserve a medal !! thanks for listening and any thoughts, suggestions, advice would be really welcome and encouraged - have a great day !  

an honest mouse wrote on 27 Apr 2010 12:51:


that sounds like a good idea i am going to try it! it sounds like you are really doing a great job of finding ways to avoid a fall and in case one fails being able to get right back up! Keep it up!

I guess I get one of those meddles....

Great stuff....
Not un-similar from the stuff I'm working on...

Something that I found very helpful is to write down every day 2 positive things (about yourself, or things you did, or things in your life to appreciate, etc.).....

It had a tangible effect on me....

May G-d be with you....

hey an honest mouse,
your introspection is very commendable. and the fact that you shared it with us, simply amazing. i think now that you've identified areas to improve in, now's the time to start fighting that battle. find things that get you spiritually excited: whether learning with a chavrusa, spending time with your loved ones and friends, simply studying something that you finding interesting. honestly, the list goes on and on. also, just like you wrote, take moments to appreciate each day.

find and choose a reason to be b'simcha, there's loads of 'em all around you!

and most importantly, just keep fighting. from my experience on GUE thus far, this is the most important concept. as long as Hashem see's you putting forth the effort, the results will eventually come. Hatzlocha!

Reb honest mouse - Very good points. I think that even just realizing those facts may help you. I know that for me, when I'm aware of the dangers, it becomes easier for me to look at the situation, and say, "well, I'm stressed, and a bit unhappy, but that doesn't mean I have to give into these urges!" Because I know exactly why they're there. Somehow, that helps me.

thanks everyone for your replies and your chizuk!

I am still thinking of tools to have when I am depressed, frustrated, alone and get a trigger/urge.

I came up with calling someone - my wife in certain situations but I need to think of someone inspirational who will have time for trickier/heavier urges/times.

Making a list of attitude reasons why its bad to lust and great not to lust which I have to read before I do anything (ill post it up bli neder when I've composed it)

I for sure need more tools - any ideas? feel free to put them up

Have a great day!

Heiligeh yid,

The very fact that you are reaching out as you are is evidence of a total shift in your attitude. For how long were you essentially struggling with this alone and in secret? Really when was the first time you got into some trouble emotionally or otherwise as a result of our temptations or masturbation? For most of us it was when we were still in our teens. So you have changed. You are making slow but very significant and meaningful progress. In my opinion, you are one of the luckiest people alive on this planet. OK.

Now, while the act of calling people is a tremendous good eitza, calling my wife would depend on the issue at hand. I don't know you and I certainly know nothing about your wife (besides that she's a girl, I guess) but in every case I know, the wife of a guy who has issues with this is liable to feel insecure about it. She knows that in some part of her husbands heart she is being compared with plastic supermodels; her sexuality is being compared with fake-perfect actresses; and that her husband is a nice guy but a little nutty. At least being drawn after this stuff the way many of us (here) are, is quite nutty to anyone normal - especially to a woman. Almost any woman. Especially if she is really normal and level-headed. Even if she is "understanding" and loving - she can't really understand, of course. This is poshut to me (and to my wife). So she will eventually react (in her insides), in ways that you do not expect. So it may just be cruel, in my opinion. It can also eventually throw a major monkey-wrentch into your sexuality, which may already be more "monkey-wrentched" than you realize...

So, perhaps you would do better to find friends for the kind of stuff that she might not be best equipped to handle for you. PM me for some people/#s, if you'd like.

As far as the other eitzos you mentioned, yes - every perv I know needs a multi-pronged approach to this. One minute it may be enough to make a brief call to admit the truth about what I am struggling with in order to let go of the struggle - at other times, it may be necessary to honestly ask my Best Friend to take away my lust right now - at other times it may be necessary for me to say to my Best Friend, "RS"O, whatever it is that I am looking for in that image or fantasy or crazy idea, let me find it in You, instead (when You are ready to give it to me. I trust You now.) - at other times it may be necessary for me to use a meeting to get it out of my system - sometimes I simply need to get the heck out of dodge and then make the call or prayer...it all depends. Some days I am so screwed up in the head that it isn't a lust thing I need to face, it's my insanity over a resentment, fear, or entitlement...that needs surrender, and the work of the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th steps. There is no other way i know to get free of that - and the method of the steps always works for me. But all these things are just eitzos - they are not touching on the c0ore of what I need, and are all doomed to failure, in my opinion. If you hear me so far, read on.

But by "a multi-pronged approach" I do not mean a really long list of tricks. Please understand me here. If I am not living - or learning how to live - my life differently - for a different motivation and in a different way - then I am doomed to be the same guy and have the same troubles. Sure it takes time, but the tricks are just temporary measures, and if inside I really have not started to seriously give myself to Hashem, then what I will be left with after "resisting" 553 temptations, is essentially either a tremendous resentment to G-d for witholding ALL THAT PLEASURE from me. Tell me, why else do people fall after a month, two weeks, or whatever, over and over? What's really building up? Aren't they fighting with all their might AND asking Hashem to help them with the fight?

The problem is that they are fighting at all! Even WITH Hashem! It's like a guy in a rehab lock-down. Take away the drink for long enough and he goes crazy. Even if Hashem Himself helps keep the drink from him - it doesn't matter who's doing that. Without a real change, he will eventually have to drink again. He'll have to. So, fighting this is not the answer. But neither is giving into it - that we found out and it's why we are here, of course. If you are truly a lust adddict, I would bet that at your core, whether you realize it or not, you honestly believe that you need this lust stuff. That means that you believe that it is good for you. No matter how bad it is for you also. I do not buy the typical yetzer hora model that many here use, for a simple self-destructive stupid thing in us that wants the lust for some evil reason. Nu, maybe it's semantics to many, but I really believe that my very heart - for whatever reason - really believes that the warm, sweet  feeling from porn and masturbation is absolutely needed. I am innocent for my perceived needs - they are my perceived needs! It is a horrible mistake, but they are what part of me really believes. Rav Noach zt"l would tell you that even an arab terrorist y"s really believes in his heart that what he is doing is not evil. He believes that it is in his best interest. Same with me, the pervert, who wants to look at that pretty lady in the subway. It's the way I am wired and not a matter of guilt, at all. It's just the truth - I am screwed up and feel that it's good for me. But Hashem IS all powerful and can overcome my wiring. He can fix me to be free of the need to do that stuff. And He is today, so far. I am alone in my parent's house - the house with all the dirty books I grew up with reading in my masturbation and lust "training years", and have no fear that I will look at any of them. They were the most major compulsion in my life for ten hormonal years, but I am free today -just today. Am I "strong"? ABSOLUTELY NOT! It is 100% a gift, period. And it took time to get open enough to recieve it. Do I deserve credit? For what? For getting the help I need so that I do not shoot myself in the head by looking in one of those books, I deserve credit?

I know that for me, being able to reach out and call someone is important. Sometimes it can just be a friend that doesn't even know about my struggles. Sometimes it'll be someone from the forum. But I know I need to get myself out of my frutrated head.

And then, even if they don't pick up, I've already taken a step away from my lust, because I've turned my back on it and looked for fulfillment elsewhere.

Its been a while - i meant to post right after the weekend but then the forum went down! I felt isolated again, it was a great opportunity to really appreciate all the great chizuk that I get from all you guys here and to make me realise to post more!

I've been sick for the last few days and I dunno if anone else gets this but my head goes all cloudy and lust sets in. I think i've trained myslef since my teens to associate being sick with an opportunity for self gratification, coz im home all day by myself. So my brain thinks "sick = pleasure".

B'H im proud to report that for the 1st time when sick - i didnt have a fall!  ;D  I've had 7 clean days even though I've been feeling all restless and inclined to reach out for lust for some of them. That's a victory of sorts I believe, although i feel like I'm kind of limped through week one. Maybe thats better than starting off in a blaze of enthusiasm coz it wares off... :-\

To answer Reb Dov (not-yet-in-israel) from april 29th, I hear what your saying, it makes a lot of sense and is very scary. The thought of living life differently is intimidating, but it will come gradually as I work out whats messed up. A problem is that my wife told me, when she found out about my addiciton, that she was very happy with how I was and wouldn't have changed anything. Im very giving when Im around her and my kids, its when Im by myself that I get selfish... Just to clarify though, I only plan on calling her if there is a little bit of lust and I just have to hear her voice and connect with her to remind myself that I already have all that I need. I wouldn't call to discuss the lust itself.

Im thinking about a sponsor/partner but am a bit apprehensive about making the plunge. Maybe I do need to make recovery the support more real though...