dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 17 Nov 2024 18:01:

Someone I know once said to his wife - can’t you just let me be grumpy in peace….

dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 17 Nov 2024 18:01:

I relate to you. Sometimes you just feel so bla and you just want to wake up and the tantalizing fantasies promise to give you that colorful lively experience you're missing, and you know it's a lie, and that you'll feel so terrible afterward, but you say "eh so let me enjoy the lie in the meantime because this current experience stinks too" 

Hang in there. One of the biggest lies the yh of depression tells is that this will go on forever. You're doomed! You are going to be miserable forever, it's all over. Might as well enjoy the lies that you can because you sure as hell aren't going to be enjoying anything else. This is a pure lie like you yourself said, I'm just reiterating it.

Anyway thanks for sharing your journey here, it is very moving

simchastorah wrote on 17 Nov 2024 22:06:

More and more I'm starting to see depression as a fantasy in itself... so whatever works to bust a fantasy will bust the feeling of depression. That's why I naturally avoid reaching out to people, because it pushes me to see the world the way it is.

Thanks simchasotrah and ya"ll for the Chizzuk

I'm still feeling very blah : ( I don't have crazy urges, but I will still masturbate out of habit. I lost my motivation to stop. So why am I even here? Good question... I guess deep down I want to stop. But right not I'm so uninspired religiously, so Kedusha is not enough of a motivation. And occasional masturbation is largely considered to be a healthy practice thus the reason not to engage is religious. As I'm writing this I'm aware that the reality I'm experiencing right now may change in an instance, but this is what I'm feeling now. It's very common for me to be an atheist and a strong believer in the same day. I crave stability!

dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 25 Nov 2024 17:04:

Hi McDreamy,

You can find many posts and threads here on GYE explaining that religion is not the only and sometimes not a good reason to stop. 
The real reason has to be YOU. 
You should not be addicted to something. And not being able to stop is sort of an addiction. you are not in charge. If your married, then you are stopping because you love your family and you dont want to hurt them. etc. there are lot of reason other then religion. 


Another thing, I dont think you are an atheist, you can listen to Rabbi Noach Weinberg ZL's shiurim on this subject. 
I think you need to back up and really work on your beliefs. Its hard for anyone to resolve to doing anything if he doesnt know his place in this world and who he is. 

I wish you clarity and peace of mind. 
I pray for your healing. May you be filled with love and compassion for Hashem and His children. 

chancy wrote on 25 Nov 2024 18:52:

chancy, go-ahead make the case, why is it so important to stop? Again, I'm not talking about watching porn, I'm talking about masturbating occasionally. Make the case, why is it so destructive? I also have a habit of biting my nails, do I need to stop that too? Of course I want, it would be nice but I don't get the sense of urgency. 

I am not an atheist, because that would be "believing" in nothing. I'm more skeptical and feeling very distant, it just doesn't feel like a real thing to make me act or not to act based on that. Just the way I'm feeling very often.

I take your blessing - I am lost and do not have the clarity I so desperately need

Shalom Brother,

Perhaps Reb CO's post here may be interesting to read.
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/425037-Masturbation-but-no-Porn#425056

Hatzlacha

dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 25 Nov 2024 17:04:

You answered the question yourself sir. If you didn't have any interest in stopping, you wouldn't be here!


As far as the emunah issues, I will refer you to a humorous story with rabbi mechanic! A teenaged girl called him with loads of emunah questions. After listening to all the classics (why was there a Holocaust, why are there so many goyim and non frum Jews if our way is correct etc etc) he asked her, "chanele, why do you hate your mother?"

See the problem for you is that you have a major issue with M and it's hurting you deeply inside. 
Let's just go utopian here for a minute and say, if you didn't have a M problem, would you still have emunah issues? I venture to say "no"

I would say to you what I am now telling myself. If you could find a way to clean yourself up (as I have done, recently) will your yiddishkeit and general happiness be significantly better? Of course it would be! 
So therefore you know what you have to do. 
Now the only question remains is HOW to clean up yourself. 
For this, BH we have an amazing chevra here on this site. A group of WINNERS. be in touch with them! Ask them! Shmooze to them. They've been in your situation and have done it. So if you aren't asking them how they did it, that's on you my friend. 
Reach out, talk to them. You'll be ok. 
I'm always available for you if you need a listening ear. 

dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 25 Nov 2024 19:53:

I'll swing at this pitch (not the religion one. That's way outta my pay grade.) 

Are you only occasionally masturbating? Or does the occasional masturbation occasionally lead to sporadic porn use too? And does that lead to binges and to . . . It's all part of the same nasty soup. 

You gotta be honest with yourself.

Of course, it's possible that you're just a normal man with normal urges, and have no particular problem. Masturbation is selfish and whatnot (downright masturbatory!), but if religion ain't convincing you, a little bit of selfishness probably won't either.

No one except you can make you want to or choose to stop. But here are a 1)couple  2) relevant Dov talks. He's pretty persuasive.

Good luck!

dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 25 Nov 2024 19:53:

You have not written enough here to understand where you are coming from. So ill share my thoughts with the hopes that it resonates with you. 

One of the main things that pushed me to stop M and P is because I started having questions in Emunah, I was really struggling for a while. I had an opportunity to have a real relationship with a goyta i got very close with at work, and i was actively fighting her advances. After a while i started questioning, why are you fighting it? who says there is anything wrong? who says there is anything out there that cares what I do? it took my on a serious trip. I was in real trouble. 
Then, I saw in a sefer that not being holy and doing these kinds of things make one weak in Emunah! It was a real slap in the face and a lightbulb at the same moment! 
That was one of the major things that got me to start working on M and P. I couldnt and didnt want to lose my Yidishkiet. 

So you see, here is another reason to stop. 
You are obviously not comfortable being in this place of believer/atheist/not sure/blah. 
So why not trust the holy sfarim and the holy yiden here that are crying to you 'stay clean and you will get better' try it for yourself and you will thank us!. 

I really feel your pain, I wish I can help with what you are going thru. The best I can do now is holding your hands across the computer and crying with you. 

Love 
Chancy

odyossefchai wrote on 25 Nov 2024 21:19:

odyossefchai, you lost me with that story of Rabbi Mechanic... It might be true and even clever but I think it's disrespectful to dismiss someone like that. 

dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 25 Nov 2024 22:03:

Nope. 
He's looking for the root of the problem. 
if you don't cure the problem and only work on the symptoms, you'll never cure the problem. 

A good doctor (in this case-Rabbi) can help you with that. 

Der Oilem Zugt Git...  Disclaimer: being a native Yiddish-speaker, it's hard for me to express myself properly. Yiddish doesn't have the vocabulary and English is not my first language. So I feel like I'm not getting across the things I want to say. But I'll try my best.

I don't have a P or M problem, I have a mood problem. Over the years I developed a masturbation habit but that's not my 'real' problem. My moods roll on a roller coaster and it takes along my entire sense of self on the ride. The way I see the world and everything around me changes very dramatically. Today I can feel so strongly about my wife but tomorrow I don't understand why we're still married. Same with God. 

My biggest struggle in life is to stay committed to things I 'know' I need to do or not to do. It plays out in all areas of my life. When my mood is down, I don't show up to my learning, I overeat and so on...

dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 03 Nov 2024 21:14:

Dreamy Unicorn (BTW, unicorn blood is known to extend one's life, in case you didn't know...  )

Been meaning to comment on this for a while, just never got to it. 

I find this nekudah fascinating. Finding a Mashpia/Rebbi, thinking your problem is finally solved, only to find out that, boom, you are really back to square one. All flowery chizuk aside, you are not really different inside.

I had the same experience. What it taught me was, that although I was experiencing a certain "Ohr" in Avodas Hashem, and yes, that "light' powered me to win for a long time, it still was not the internal change I desperately needed. 

This is sometimes the problem with the "Mashpia Approach". A new energy for Torah and Mitzvahs? Perhaps. There may even be some level of accountability to your Mashpia. But the real tools such as those presented here, the support system, the deeper internal work, the deeper understanding of why we use, so we can finally shift from user to non-user, are sometimes missing.

So, I guess I am mentioning this to share that you are not alone in realizing that even a new path in Avodas Hashem may not always be the real answer. 

It can even sometimes be a curse disguised as a blessing. Because if you are taught that this "mehalich" is supposed to work for "everything", and it really doesn't, than that becomes a deep and painful internal stirah to your very Emunah. It takes real courage to take a step back and reach out for help.

You took the courage to take that step. 

youknowwho wrote on 28 Nov 2024 15:51:

The act of slaying a unicorn and drinking its blood would cause the drinker to suffer a cursed life, even if they do live forever.