OK, let's move this over here, and we can also continue any other discussion from the other thread...the title is mostly because I liked how the first bunch of words kinda rhymed  :D

TrYiNg - The original question was based on the lust problem. The continued shidduch discussion was addressing a different issue - how to approach one tiny, yet very complicated facet, of dating.

If I go out with a girl, and she's gorgeous, has a great personality, is smart, and nice, but mentions in passing, "oh, and I serve avodah zarah," then I don't think anyone here is giving a "yes" to date #2. If there's a clear hashkafic issue, most guys don't have trouble saying no. Or if personalities clash, and you just don't get along with your date.

Physical attraction, though, becomes more complicated, on a number of levels. 1) you need to decide if it's something that you might see from a different perspective later on. 2), even if you're sure, it feels rotten to say, "she's perfect in every way, but she's not for me because of the way she looks." Honestly, it just feels wrong - even if I know that hashem is telling me that this girl isn't for me (and by the way, although I have strong opinions, I've only said "no" based on looks once, out of...yeesh, a LOT of dates). 3) You need to decide whether you're not attracted, or if she's not the "type" you've always imagined. Lots of guys never realize this distinction.

And also, we need to face facts - although it's far from being being the most important thing, it's still absolutely essential that a guy IS attracted to his wife - and yet, some guys aren't sure that that's "right."

So discussing this, perhaps especially in this forum, can be important.

Maybe. Or maybe I just like talking. (shrugging emoticon)

There might be some guys that focus too much on looks. Just like there might be guys (and girls) that focus too much on money, or even on things like how good a sense of humor the guy has, or how his laugh sounds.

All have a certain amount of importance (although the money one can be argued), but it has to be placed in context. And we could have a whole discussion on how important personality is. And how to decide what's right. Does that mean that someone's sense of humor is the most important thing? Of course not. But it can affect things, and some people feel it is very important.

The discussion was about the physical looks aspect of dating. And within that tiny area, those comments can be accurate. If they actually felt that those aspects were the primary thing to check out when it comes to shidduchim, THEN we've got a problem.

Well done, silentbattle! I don't have time to read it now, but i will read it later. You know i'm also about to go on shidduchim, so i'm sure there will be lots of useful stuff on this thread. KEEP THE THREAD ROCKING. It drives me crazy to look at the thread 'do pretty and skinny women' it really triggers!

ok. my two cents.

all women are pretty. well, maybe when they get to be 95 some get ugly. and only one or two are actually ugly at 20...

men need to feel attracted to thier wives, and girls like to know their husbands are attracted to them, so please don't marry a girl you're not attracted to.

habib613 wrote on 29 Dec 2009 16:13:


Very well said.  Even more important is not to marry a girl simply because you're attracted to her.  Invariably, you'll be very very sorry!

Habib and kedusha - right on, both of you. Those are the two basic things that everyone has to keep in mind.

However, Habib - I would say that ALL women are pretty. But not all women are pretty to every guy. The one girl that i said "no" to because of looks, had a particular issue that bothered me personally, though I think that most other guys would not have been bothered at all. And vice versa - some other guy may have an issue that I won't.

Which is why I don't even ask for any info about looks, because no matter what, it's a decision I need to make for myself.

i like your way a whole lot better than some other people's way.

and yeah, you are right. not every girl is pretty to every guy.

You mean, asking for dress sizes, pictures, etc? (derisive snort emoticon) (oh, don't know if you got the memo - I like making up my own emoticons when the available ones don't do the job for me).

And vice-versa, by the way - EVERY girl is pretty to someone, I think.

there is hope!

:D :D :D :D

There's a famous story (my sister told me this one) of a guy who was really picky. He kept turning girls down because they weren't pretty enough for him. His friends told him to settle, but he kept saying, "No way! I'm going to marry an absolutely beautiful girl." Time went on, and he got older, but he refused to settle, despite the pleading of his friends.

Finally, after many years, he got engaged! Obviously, his friends were all curious - who was this girl that was finally good enough? When they saw her though, she...well, she wasn't quite what they'd expected. And they realized, well, he finally got smart and figured out that he has to settle. Good for him! But when they went over to wish him mazal tov, he greeted them with a big smile and said, "See? it was worth the wait, huh?"

i've heard that before
it's all bashert.
Father knows best- and Hashem's our real Abba!

Very true...I know that. I wish I could feel it more, though...

feelings shmeelings

i believe the word is trust. Bitachon.

He did everything for us! made the sunset pink and purple and green, made down coats so we don't freeze, gave us fingers to type...
sorry, tangent.

if you don't feel it, i'll feel for you.
i know Hashem is running the world, and i KNOW he prepared the right girl for you, for uri, sturggle, bruce, ano, and all the other single guys out there.
Hashem will introduce you to her when the time is right, not a second before. or after.

don't worry, k?

And I KNOW that you're right. The wait is still hard, though. Even aside from my current dating break, it's something that I want so badly.