Human being wrote on 25 Nov 2022 20:08:

I'm sorry to read about the hard situation your in right now, it must really feel hard and challenging. I hope you feel better soon.

Wanted to quickly comment on the quoted post above. I'm sorry that part of you feels judged, I also have parts that are very sensitive to judgement, although I'm better now sometimes bh.

Just wanna share something I learned from being here some time, maybe it will resonate with you, and can be of a help. There are many ways, methods, modalities, and ideas how to work on those struggles, some are very different then the other, a 12 steps guy, cannot partner with a IFS guy, even if both respect each other and have the same goals, they just speak different languages, and look at things differently on a very basic level. In fact I think that such a partnership will only brake them both. 

Lets say if a 12 steps guy will say only G-d can take away my lust, and the IFS guy will try to explain to him that every person has a Self that can be in the driver's seat and take care of the lust firefighter, the guy will feel misunderstood, and even judged- as If he is expected to be able to fight his "sickness". Now we know that non of them are judging the other, but they are taking a very different approach to this journey. 

I think that might be what happened here, I don't think anyone judged your wanting to act out, its just has a very different language to this struggle, and feeling misunderstood, can feel judged at times. 

Personally, I think that is one of the main benefits of the 12 steps program, having a fellowship that speaks your 'language', I've always been jealous of that part. 

Wonder if any of yhis makes sense to you. 

Wishing you the best brother.

SAPY WROTE
a 12 steps guy, cannot partner with a IFS guy, even if both respect each other and have the same goals, they just speak different languages, and look at things differently on a very basic level. In fact I think that such a partnership will only brake them both. 



I agree with this 100 percent. 10000000000000000 %. It frustrates me to no end when people cannot accept parts of themselves and instead say "hay its g-ds fault that i have this BAAAAD part"    Why cant we come to accept every part of ourselves and love every part of ourselves AND say its up to g-d because i have no control. Why choose when we can do both? If we cant accept a part of ourselves, then we cant accept that part in other people. Its just impossible. 

My opinion is a little different.

Even if a guy goes/does the 12 steps, he can never the less still accept the part of him that wants to watch porn, while at the same time saying "its on g-d because this part of me is too strong sometimes its impossible for me alone to manage"

So ifs people can accept 12 steps people who accept all their parts.

And ifs people can also "its on g-d because this part of me is too strong sometimes its impossible for me alone to manage"  while at the same time still accept the part of him that wants to watch porn. 

Only 12 steppers who don't love and accept the part of them that wants to watch porn will not be able to partner with an IFS guy. And only an IFS guy that doesn't "put it onto g-d" will not be able to partner with a 12 steps guy.

Alright, I appreciate your opinion, and agree to disagree.

1) I do think that some models disagree on a basic level, including IFS and 12 steps, when a IFS guy says G-d takes it away, he's talking Emunah, but it's not part of his work on recovery, but in SA it's literally a miracle that G-d does without any understanding why. So if a 12 steps person wants to help a IFS guy and starts talking about miracles happening it's just not the right message, and the same the opposite.

2) even if they agree, the model puts focus on other stuff, imagine a 12 steps guy tells you to make an inventory of everyone you fear/resent, or tells you to make amends to them, and he can't stand you not putting focus on this important step 4, he's not helping you he's breaking you. Same goes when a IFS guy puts pressure on a 12 steps guy to focus on accepting every part of his, or building a relationship with those parts.

They might have the same destination, but the are taking very different routs, be careful with exchanging GPS directions with one another.

Again, I appreciate and respect your right to disagree, you are a smart man.

IM now going to fully agree with you! You are clear, concise and your argument is true.

That being sad, it makes me sad that so many people out there cant accept parts of themselves, and instead try to force parts to forgive and forget, which isn't possible if the part doesn't want to. You can squash that part and ignore it, but that doesn't help either because it is still affecting us even if we squash it. Its actually affecting us more if we squash it. When we bring things to our conscious minds, they have less control over us. So anyone working on step 4 in the 12 steps, i feel bad for them if they don't know they can accept anger, resentment and hate. Even if we say we forgive, if a part of us doesnt forgive, its simply not true. And one can never know if they are ready to forgive, if they cant accept the part of them thats angry, hurt, and hateful.

I know MANY guys in SA that have done their 4th step and are doing just fine...

Shmuel wrote on 02 Dec 2022 01:41:

Of course people are doing fine. But there's so much more then just fine. There's ACCEPTING all our parts and feelings and learning to love all of ourselves, including uncomfortable parts of us that may be hateful, be resentful, want to hurt someone, are angry, want to watch porn etc.

Because always remember, if we cant accept a part of our self, then its impossible to accept that same part in someone else. For ex: if we cant love the part of ourselves that wants to watch porn, we will never be able to embrace and love the part of someone else that wants to watch porn. And if we don't love the part of a person that wants to watch porn then we aren't really loving him, because we are only 100% loving him, if he doesn't watch porn. That aint love.

Lets start loving for real!!!!!!! #reallovestartswithselflove#everyparteveryfeelingeveryexpierence

What a disaster this night has been. For starters I didn't learn a word today. That always makes me feel empty. Then i sat down to watch the team i follow occasionally, and they lost big time. I was really angry. Not only that, I had 2 beers while I was watching the game.

So i left the bar were i was watching the game very tense and upset just steaming with tension and still a tiny buzzed (legal though. My abs levels were under .08). On my ride home I passed by an adult store. I have gone into adult stores before. I had so much tension inside, that I turned around and went back to the shop. I just sat outside the store in my car. Thank god I'm no longer addicted as much as before, so I was able to "pass up the opportunity" and start driving home -thank you Hashem. 

then....... sirens...... and cops pull me over. On my way to turn around and head back to the store, i had made a left turn out of a parking lot, and the thing was, I didn't realize there was a median (about three inches high) separating both the east bound lanes and the west bound lanes. I didn't see it because it was very low and from the parking lot were i had been, it blended in with the street. So I was ready to make a left turn when all the sudden i realize theirs no left turn there's a median. Problem was, i was already turning the wrong way onto a street with cars going pretty quick. I wasn't going to start backing up to straighten out. I just continued over the median and made the left turn despite the median.

So i got a ticket for going the wrong way on a one way street. Another ticket for not having my lights on, and another ticket for not staying in my lane. And a summons. I was so angry. I had not meant to go the wrong way on a 1 way street, I was just trying to make a left turn and didn't realize their was a median.  Problem is I don't want to fight it in court, because then their going to ask me where I was going and it will be a massive chillul Hashem, forget the embarrassment. Anyways since then, I've been sexually browsing for "non explicit-explicit pictures. Not officially porn but beetzem serves the same function.  I'm popping. My penis is hurting from me not masturbating because i turned myself on for so long. Yet i dont masturbate.

I'm so damn frustrated that I am unable to feel any less of a pull to porn even though I have a 98 day streak. Its because of my emotional state which is dissociative. ITS SO FRUSTRATING just a week ago I was feeling horny-free, now, every time I'm on a computer because my body isn't busy, I'm pulled straight to stimulating myself sexually.      WT*  am i ganna do?!?!?!?!?   Today for all practical purposes, was the closest thing to a fall, I would even call it a fall, but to be nice to myself im calling it a "toch kiday 3 hour dibbur fall"  meaning I'm not masturbating and I'm not going any farther down the rabbit hole so its not an official fall. BUT WHAT THE * AM I GIONG TO TO IN THE FUTURE ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

For someone with your history to experience so much tension and make the statement "I'm not masturbating and I'm not going any farther down the rabbit hole" is incredibly heroic. Keep it up tzaddik! May Hashem help you out of all the agmas nefesh this experience caused - (and be advised there are guys that have good track records fighting tickets that can stand in on your behalf that don't need to know where you were going).

You are a hero!!! Look what you resisted under such very difficult conditions! What will you do next time, you ask? Fight like hell like you did this time. You are doing great!

Human being wrote on 02 Dec 2022 09:07:

It seems that Hashems loves you soo much that he even tried to uphold you from going to the adult store!. He sent police to that area, He put a median right over there, He made sure you shouldn't notice it, He made sure you shouldn't take a diff way to the adult store put instead make a U-turn so the cops should hold you from going there.
Hasehem LOVES YOU and he's trying to show you how he's helping you overcome these desires. He sees your hard work and is definitely shepping nachas from you!!
Stay Strong!!
Git shabbas!!

Hashemschild.1 wrote on 02 Dec 2022 16:57:

the time has come for a vacation from gye; the vibes aren't good for me. take care good fellows.

troublescall@outlook.com a"h - the call that is

Trouble wrote on 02 Dec 2022 17:25:

I hear, @trouble. You may be right…I’m considering doing the same. I had another SSA member pull me off into a private chat that for the last month was going in a very bad direction. I think I’ll just continue my count offline and give this a rest. I’m way too focused on this site and it’s bad for me and there is not enough focus here on the issues I deal with most. I just don’t feel like I belong here or that anyone is particularly interested in my unique situation. This happened in 2017 too. I got on here and ended up getting off because it just was not a good place for me to hang out. Thought maybe now would be different. I just feel like my issues are not addressed enough here so it makes me feel even more “messed up” and broken. 

Teshuvahguy wrote on 02 Dec 2022 17:45:

TG

We are here to be supportive. If you feel a chat is going in a bad direction, please don't hesitate to end the chat.  You can also block a person. 

I believe the purpose of GYE is to help people keep their eyes and minds kosher.  It is not necessarily to find an outlet to discuss the nature of the urges we each feel.  Obviously, sometimes those things are discussed, especially if they are common to most of the people here.  the primary goal is to offer different solutions and perspectives that will help anyone that is challenged.  We are also here to encourage each other on the way through the falls and challenges without judgement.

I don't believe i have ever publicly discussed the specific interests that i had.  Even in private messages i have stayed away from that discussion in almost all instances.  The only place i discussed that in depth was in therapy with a trained professional.  

In the beginning it felt a bit lonely to have a situation that did not seem common to the members here.  With time i became more adept at learning to benefit from many posts and to see the struggle from many different angles.  some of those angles made sense to me, some not so much.  Either way i try to be supportive.  

I certainly sympathize with anyone who struggles with a unique challenge.  At times a break is necessary and healthy.  

I wish you much continued success.

vehkam

@vehkam, I never once said that the site was not fulfilling its purpose. Please do not put words in my mouth. My statement was about how I, personally, am feeling today about the site’s benefits for me individually. I did not in any way disparage the mission of the site or anyone on it. I am hurting and what I need is support, as I have supported so many on here, as well. Nothing more, nothing less.