Hashem Help Me wrote on 29 Apr 2022 11:14:

Not to mention a good shtikel torah....

5Uu80*cdwB#^ wrote on 29 Apr 2022 12:06:

it also depends on your level of sexual adventure; i'm sure the logic, however, might work for some - sadly, my adventures are usually enjoyable and do "live up."

5Uu80*cdwB#^ wrote on 29 Apr 2022 12:06:

I was discussing this with someone and was having a hard time understanding maybe you can give me some insight since it’s related to this question. Whats wrong if something is quick and brief? I mean everything in life eventually passes too! What does it mean when something doesn’t live up? When it’s short? So then maybe intimacy doesn’t either live up.. we always need more connection it’s never enough. We came out maybe we can say there’s a difference between needing something constantly and reaching satisfaction and needing something constantly and needing more intensity and pleasure each time to reach satisfaction. Additionally, it depends what’s the expectation?  If it’s something more then this can give then it won’t live up etc. 

Shtarkandemotional wrote on 29 Apr 2022 14:36:

For me, the difference is if it's filling an inner need vs a superficial need.
Intimacy is an emotional connection. It's a deep satisfaction/need that is built into my existence. Porn/masturbation feels very good and i usually enjoy it however it doesn't satisfy because it doesn't connect with the "inner". Spending money at a fancy restaurant and having a great meal doesn't either satisfy anything real for me.

Shtarkandemotional wrote on 29 Apr 2022 14:36:

i guess you're questioning your own question and statement from above; i certainly subscribe to that - nothing wrong if something is quick and brief; even better if it's slow and long me think. and then it might even live up.

on the flip side, this life is a long one (god-willing), and ultimately, that is what we should be concentrating on - living the real life to the fullest.

I feel so terrible. Why can't I think of this horrible feeling before I fail? It's like my mind blocks everything except the Taava and that's it until it's done. I really don't know what to do anymore. Such a let down. So upset and disappointed with myself

I'm sorry you had a fall. Your avodah now is to bounce back up again and not get stuck in negative feelings.
Ask yourself, "What led to this fall?"
I would bet that the initial trigger was either focusing on certain fantasy thoughts or looking at imagery.
To become baalei tshuva in this war, we must:
-Stop fantasizing
-Stop looking at imagery

I say this because many people are not aware of point #1.
Keep up the hard work!

Shmuel wrote on 29 Apr 2022 15:31:

Shmuel, great piece of insight. Thank YOU! 

I had a dream last night that I was falling during the day and that I was screaming in my sleep, I dont want to fall. It felt so real.
Thank G-D in the morning I checked and I did not have nocturnal emission. 
For me for some reason its so scary.

I live and fight this by night and by day

Love ya all

Eyes

jkgilev26 wrote on 29 Apr 2022 18:38:

I am just wondering out loud here but I am thinking that it's possible that the reason why we feel so yucky after we watch porn and/or masturbate is not actually because we are "spiritually sensitive" to those actions or because we are frustrated that we did something wrong. I am thinking that the feeling is mostly emotional and may not even be logical at all. It's a feeling, an emotion, and emotions do not have to be rational. 

It can be guilt, it can be the disappointment of it not filling whatever void you were trying to fulfil, or, as in my case, the feeling of loss of control. I think it's important to realize that the feeling is an emotion that our minds are making us feel when it wants to, often illogically, and therefore it can also prevent us from feeling it even if it makes no sense. 

To make this clearer, in my case for example, I only feel the "loss of control" feeling when I can feel a reason to fight but when I go through those times when I am not motivated, I also don't feel bad at all. 

For me, the first step is to try to identify what I am trying to gain by indulging. It's not always the same thing, it could be the comfort, safety, numbing, loneliness, stress, or just plain old pleasure. In some situations, I unfortunately still have no motivation to fight (like when I am by my parents) and I just give up, other times I can acknowledge what I hoped to gain and tell myself that masturbating/watching just wont give it to me. But, thinking about how "bad" I will feel after without understanding what I feel doesn't work for me because whatever desire that is pulling me to it is often powerful enough to override that feeling. 

If you need it then you need it, don't fight it, Instead accept the fact that you need something and try to get it in a healthy and more productive way. It's often not enough just to "feel good" or "feel bad" what we really need is to change the way we actually do things.    

eyes wrote on 01 May 2022 02:14:

That’s scary. 

But don’t forget that a nocturnal emission doesn’t count as a fall.

Shtarkandemotional wrote on 01 May 2022 01:15:

Would love to hear your thoughts

This thread actually helped me answer a question that I had.  In nusach sefard we say in ahavas olam למען לא נבוש ולא נכלם ולא נכשל לעולם ועד. Now I understand The concept of not being embarrassed for eternity. But why are we asking that we not be נכשל for eternity.  What kinds of נכשל ‏  can there possibly be in the olam haemes?

I believe the answer lies in this thread.  After a person is נכשל  He experiences a low, a feeling of dejection and disappointment.  Perhaps even a worse feeling and then being extremely embarrassed   true, We are not concerned that we will continue to be נכשל in the next world. That cannot happen. What we are concerned is that this feeling of dejection from all the avieros we did in this world Will carry over and remain with us לעולם ועד.  This is what we mean when we say למען ….ולא נכשל לעולם ועד