As a first step, maybe some guys here would be interested in collaborating on a google document to suggest edits, so we can make a version that is a bit cleaner (e.g. removing " detailed information about relations" - as @inshallah wrote here earlier, and more Kosher (like removing his hechsher for masturbation at the end).

If anyone is interested, you can write to me at menachem@guardyoureyes.org. Just keep in mind that in google docs each editor can see the other editors, so if you want to join this effort, please contact me from an email address that you only use for GYE.

MenachemGYE wrote on 01 Feb 2022 20:46:

I like how moderators on gye always start the first line with the words “the first step…”

In other news…
Isn’t the easy Peezy method already one of the tools in the handbook? Maybe it just needs a slight tweak…

...Just for the record, I don't know how well this method works and how long the results last.

Still, I think it's cool that there are guys here willing to try out new things and report how well it's working for them, so I'd love to help out.

Even if this doesn't turn out to be a magic pill, it can still be a good motivational tool that can be used along with other strategies.

(Studies show that Allen Carr's Easyway program has decent success rates - about 24% are still free after 6 months - see here). But that's when it's done with a 5-hour group CBT therapy session with therapists, using official materials, and when dealing with smoking. This program is trying to stretch his strategy to apply to porn, using a self-help format and using new materials/opinions written by "hack authors." So it's not quite the same.)

MenachemGYE wrote on 02 Feb 2022 03:21:

I recall in yeshiva there would be times when people would come in with “The Book” as it was called and give enthusiastic sales pitches about how magically it can help us stop , of course there were those who knew someone who went from 2 packs a day to not a cigarette in 5 years.
We would read it and when finished as instructed throw the cigarettes ceremonially up in the air , declaring with joy , I’m free! And we were, until we lit up our next cigarette. I don’t think anyone I knew ended up quitting via the book directly , instead it joined the dusty collections of “donated” seforim .
If something is working for someone,fantastic,amazing,wonderful , but If it has questionable effectiveness and content there are so many other proven methods and tools on the Gye platform , I don’t think it should be pushed here.And again Kol hakavod that people want to share what helped them , but this program has the feel of a marketing tool , other programs don’t promote recruitment the way this does. 

I think I've trudged through about 20% of the book so far.

The basic premise (and chiddush to regular 12 steppers) is as follows:
You don't gain anything from lusting.
The real reason that you lust is not for pleasure.
The main reason that you lust is because of withdrawal and the fear associated with it.
The fear of withdrawal is the main cause. The withdrawal itself is light stuff (!!??).
Becoming 100% clear in the fact that you don't gain from lusting, but rather you lose so much, you will logically DECIDE to quit.




Here are some edited points I took out of the book so far...


1. Lack of energy, tiredness and everything related to it is nicely swept under the rug of ’getting older’. 


2. Attempting to drown your butterflies with lust will only make
the problem worse in the long run. 


3. We think that life will never be quite as enjoyable again. In fact, it’s the same principle at work: the sessions simply provide relief from the withdrawal
pangs.


4. What am I giving up?
Absolutely nothing! Lust is difficult to give up because of the fear we’re being deprived of our pleasure. The fear that certain pleasant situations will never be quite the same again. Fear you’ll be left unable to
cope with stressful situations. In other words, it’s the effects of brainwashing deluding us into believing that
sex – and by extension orgasm – is a must for all human beings. Even further, it’s the belief there’s something
inherent in lust that we need, and that when we stop using we will be denying ourselves and creating
a void. Make this clear in your mind: Lust doesn’t fill a void, it creates one!


5. Non-users don’t suffer from the feeling of wanting a fix.


6. you’re throwing time away! Not only that, you’re actually using that time to ruin your physical health, in order to suffer a lifetime of slavery, pain, melancholy. 


7. Wipe the sand out of your eyes for a moment. Lust is a chain reaction and a chain for life, and if you don’t break that chain you’ll remain
a user for the rest of your life. 


8. Work out how much time you would have saved if you’d never taken your first peek right at the very start.


9. By burying your head in the sand and hoping that you’ll wake up one morning and not want to lust anymore, you accomplish nothing. 

I opened the thread because I wasn't seeing this anywhere...I literally only heard of it because someone mentioned it on a comment on the Fortify website. I just wanted to let others know about another tool to try.

The program doesn't require recruitment...when I quit caffeine and emotional eating using Easyway, believe me I didn't tell a soul...it sounds ridiculous!

A big reason for wanting to let others know is that I wasted four months of my life in SA, along with the wasted money spent on their ridiculous books, donations to the "no dues" basket, and the lifelong guilt that I stepped foot in a church and recited things like the "lord's prayer". I wanted to make sure that others were aware of every method out there before going to a church to pursue a sub-5% efficacy method that is largely based on a(nother) cult, the Oxford Group, which was started by Frank Buchman, a literal friend of Adolf Hitler.

If you call this recruiting, please substantiate that accusation by what people are being recruited to do. Read? Sounds pedantic to me, but alright. Also, I would love to know your thoughts on the 12th step, which is literal recruiting to a religious cult, no different than Moonies selling flowers in the airport.

Some people are hesitant to read 100 pages (gasp!)  that might end the addiction that caused them to come on this site in the first place. Understandable! Jack Trimpey (Rational Recovery) would say that your Addiction Voice doesn't want you to read the book, because It Knows that doing so might end your addiction, spelling its demise.

One way around this is just to listen to the book while going for a walk or on your commute. It's much more passive. Additionally, porn users should remember that you do not have to stop using before reading the book! So reading does not mean that you are stopping porn usage. Feel free to enjoy your sweet, sweet porn while reading the book. Some people have reported reading a page a day...that's alright!

Another way is to read the notes that someone put out on the book at this website: flying-eagle-method.org/

I've read it. It's ok, and is a good review for someone who's read the book. It's alright as an intro to some concepts in the book. It's also not a substitute for reading the book in that it's just not as deep or as thorough. But it's certainly better than doing nothing. 

I don’t know enough about the 12 steps to get into a detailed discussion defending it .
What I do know about it is that it has helped many people here.
Many people who I look to for Hadrochah are very pro it .
The general attitude on Gye is that it’s not for everyone .

Hi, I'm the author of flying-eagle-method.org/ that was previously posted.  I quit using easy peasy, but it is terribly written and I wanted to rewrite it.

I read the original Allen Carr smoking book and studied his videos.  I also read "Dopamine Nation" for more about the science of addiction.

FE is shorter, clearer, more science about dopamine, and doesn't talk about "monsters" like easy peasy.  It also doesn't say that porn "has no pleasure", but explains the desensitization.  Did you know that even your sense of taste -- which uses dopamine -- can get dulled?  (It also avoids copyright infringement, I wrote it from scratch, and it is copyrighted by me.)

In my opinion (and also a few data points), FE method obsoletes easy peasy.  If FE doesn't "click" for someone, I highly doubt easy peasy will.  Unfortunately, I estimate FE only clicks with about 1 in 8 people.  Logical people like accountants, engineers, programmers. I would love it if a university would run a 3 month trial to get precise numbers!

Note that Allen Carr smoking method only works with 19% of people after 6 months.

PS I'm not Jewish but Ecclesiastes is my favorite book of the bible...

Still free.

For those afraid to try, there's a good quote from Chapter 29:
  

"The other category of frustrating users are those too frightened to make the attempt to stop, or when they do, find it a great struggle. The main difficulties appear to be the following.

Fear of failure.

There’s no disgrace in failure, but not trying is plain stupidity. Look at it this way, you’re hiding from nothing. The worst thing that can happen is that you fail, in which case you are no worse off than you are now. Just think how wonderful it would be to succeed. If you don’t make the attempt, you’ve already guaranteed failure.

Fear of pain and being miserable.

Don’t worry about it, just think: what awful thing could happen to you if you never watched porn again? Absolutely nothing. Terrible things will happen if you do, re-read the notes on Pascal’s Wager. In any case, the panic is caused by dopamine and will soon be gone. The greatest gain is being rid of that fear. Do you really believe that users are prepared to have fading penetrations, unreliable sexual performance, or the illusory pleasure they get from porn? If you find yourself getting panicky, deep breathing will help. If you’re with other people and they’re getting you down, escape from them and go to the garage, an empty office or somewhere.

If you feel like crying, don’t be ashamed. Crying is nature’s way of relieving tension. No one has ever had a good cry without feeling better afterwards. One of the awful things we do to young men is conditioning them not to cry. You can see them trying to fight back the tears, but watch the jaw grinding away. We teach ourselves not to show emotion, but we’re not meant to bottle them up inside. Scream, shout or have a tantrum. Kick something. Regard your struggle as a boxing match that you cannot lose. Nobody can stop time, every moment that passes that little monster inside you is dying. Enjoy your inevitable victory."

I haven't been on GYE for many months, but I saw an ad in one of the papers over  R"H for GYE that depicted it as the foundation for all of frum living.

How is this possible? Something that didn't even exist 20 years ago is now the underpinning of all of frumkeit? I disagree.

Perhaps one could argue that modern problems require modern solutions, and if we're spending so much time looking at screens, then we need a screen-based solution. It's certainly possible. I would argue that if you're spending so much time in front of a screen, then the solution is to simply spend less time in front of a screen. 

I think there's a lot of hypocrisy in the frum world when it comes to all of this stuff, and most of it is driven by profit and organizational growth incentives. There are ads in frum papers for smartphone apps to learn gemara and whatnot. Is this good? Bad? I don't know. All I know is that when I was in yeshivah they wouldn't let us have a CD player (mainstream yeshiva), and now there are ads for smartphones in the kosher papers. Something about all this seems off.

And the foundation for all of our lives? GYE. Like a good neighbor, State Farm GYE is there.

I just don't know anymore.

See you in another few months. Or never. Good luck, but you don't really need luck, you just need to stop and think of which of the solutions available to you would work for you. I chose Easypeasy and Rational Recovery. Some choose SMART. 

Above all, choose yourself.

With all due respect I think you misunderstood the ad. Not to say you're incorrect with the comment that smartphones have made too much of an inroads into our community.

The point of the ad wasn't that GYE is the foundation, rather shemiras habris is the foundation. GYE is helping fix the crack in the foundation. I'm sure the illustrators didn't intend for it to be understood the way you understood it.

ihadstringsbutnowimfree wrote on 24 Oct 2022 03:28:

My addiction to lust, masturbation and porn started way before i got access to screens and till today my acting out does not need a screen.
thanks for sharing your thoughts

I am so thrilled to see this post. This is probably going to be my last post on GYE. The more I learn about GYE and its censorship of these forums makes me question their true intent. I have played by the rules, I have taken the F2F program. I have met some wonderful people on here and "checked-in" almost daily to track my urges and fails.

I was triggered by a guy in the chat and when he asked me "what is my favorite type of porn?. I told him.. and moments later, I am kicked off the chat, never to be allowed in again, even after repeated requests for "forgiveness".. I am glad that AA doesn't kick people out after they slip up and have a one  drink!

Then yesterday, I started a new topic to discuss something very relevant and I must say, well written! And the powers running the site, didn't allow it to see the light of day. I will not say what the topic was, because this post would also be never seen or read. 

I have said in previous posts that I do not live in the Frum world and since labels seem to be important, I will say that I am Modern Orthodox. What my studies have taught me is a Jew is a Jew and none of us are any more important than any other, regardless of religious observance.  Maybe that is not the case in some segments of the Jewish world.

Free will is the cornerstone of Jewish life and everyones lives, and that is antithetical to this website and possibly the Frum world. I would love to go on and have a conversation with all of you about how using your free will, will help you in all aspects of your life and specifically the issue that brought all of us together here. But that doesn't appear to be allowed on here.

It is sad that this post may never get read but if it is, and people want to respond and are allowed to share their opinions and not just parrot the company line, then I will stay, If not... then this is a good bye that will never be heard.

Exactly.

The text of the ad reads "Kedusha is the foundation (Yesod) of Klal Yisrael. Though it's hidden underground, it holds up our
entire spiritual structure. Today, this foundation is under unprecedented attack."

(Kedusha has been an issue since the times of Noach - see this week's Parsha... so I don't know if today's challenges are truly unprecedented... but the ad has a point.)