Hi guys, I am starting a new thread to post about my journey moving forward. In my other thread I kinda write inspirational thoughts and maybe some vague somethings about me struggling. 

The truth is however that I really do struggle, even now at 140+ days clean. I Don't struggle as much and I have pretty much figured out (for the most part) what my "triggers" are, but when they come they can still freaks me out.

It's not a far fetched idea in my mind that I will someday have a full relapse and this too freaks me out. I don't expect it anytime soon but I don't imagine it as a non-possibility. This may be good or may not be, this thought process may keep me focused or it may give me ideas that I really don't want to think about.

Basically I want to use this thread to post only my struggles and all other inspiration and stuff I will post on my original thread. This way I hopefully will be able to be more aware of myself and my struggled and wont be hiding behind a mask of "oh I'm doing great, just look at my count..."

The other thing is that I never really opened up about what I actually am going through and over the next little while, hopefully I will be able to do a little of that.

Your thoughts and input are welcome.

All the bast,
Wilnevergiveup

Great idea. I should probably do the same.
Unfortunately, I don't have the time to post as would have liked.
Hatzlocha on your journey

I am going to start off slow here and hopefully this thread will accomplish some good. 

Ever since I was very little (probably 8 years old, I don't remember) I used to fantasize about females. I have an amazing imagination and I would  wall kinds of stories. I was so little that I had no Idea what I was doing and what was happening to my body and why it felt good. 

Here is the thing, I grew up very sheltered, but that didn't stop me from fantasizing. I may not have been exposed to all the garbage (yet) but I was not trained on how to deal with these thoughts. At this rate it was just a matter of time until I broke out of the shelter. 

Oh, how I wish someone would have sat me down when I was twelve and explained to me what was happening and what to do about it.
As my Rav says, "you must have this conversation with your children, they will figure all this stuff out anyway, better they learn it from you then learn it from the secular world" (you must teach it to them because otherwise they will look elsewhere and learn it from other places).

And look I did, I didn't figure it all out in one shot but all the while I was "enjoying" the feeling. I just loved to fantasize, I could come up with anything about anyone. Oh the things I could come up with, this is long before actually acting out.
This actually is a new thought process for me, I always considered my struggles to have started from the first time I acted out, but really they started much earlier. I only acted out for the first time when I was much older.

We didn't have internet access in my house so I would "steal" catalogs and magazines from the garbage.
As I got more independent, I was able to revert to more sophisticated methods, eventually getting my own laptop and phone.

I started watching movies during this time as well and started getting exposed to the Hollywood fairytale image of relationship.

I was never into porn, I was repulsed by it. I would fantasize about being taken to some royal palace in some far away place with princesses that would love me. I wanted more then just porn, I needed the whole story. I wanted the romance, I wanted to love someone and someone to love me. It didn't take much to get my imagination going and sometimes even very tzniyusdig people were the ultimate women for my fantasies.

Until today this has been my main struggle because I can't put a app block or white list on my brain.

I think that is enough for now, I did say I was going to take it slow...

All the best,
Wilnevergiveup

wilnevergiveup wrote on 10 Sep 2020 06:41:

Thanks for sharing that.  I just want to hone in on the above quote.  i think 99% of us here share the same frustration of lack of proper education in these matters when we reached puberty.  I have young children that will be reaching that age in a few years.  This has been in the back of my mind for a while.  On how to have this conversation.  GYE does have resources for how to have the "talk".  Also, many schools are taking the initiative to start some form of education in these matters.  If one has kids in school, that does not address these issues, then that's a problem.  I would suggest that person discuss with his Rav on how to have the conversation. 

Been struggling lately with a new G-d sent challenge, they tend to creep up when least expected and turns what seemed to be an uneventful many weeks into a new rollercoaster of trouble. 

When things are going well, I tend to think, I guess this is how this ends, but somehow the Y"H has his ways, he is good at what he does.

I need to get through this, and I know that when I do I will be much stronger. Its  not as simple as just blocking a site, and I will have to learn to be strong and not indulge, I guess this is training for times when I will need to be exposed for one reason or another.

Like I said earlier, the journey ain't over.

Okay, I'm back here, the thread I started for those times when I am piling those numbers onto my streak but struggling to stay afloat. 

Oh, I would never ever go there... I would never jump, but I am standing at the edge of the cliff thinking about how wonderful it can be. 

Don't worry, there is that line that I would never cross, but is it so bad to think about it? All the things that I am missing in my life, all of my fantasies... the things I would do if I could...

Don't worry you all, I know I can't and I won't but you agree that I would be fun don't you?

Why can't I seem to be able to screw my head back on straight?

Yesterday and today I have been thinking about a new plan. It's not a good one...

Lots to right, not enough time.

The numbers are still piling up but I don't feel like I am getting anyplace. I have figured out how to live life without porn and masturbating, but somehow my life hasn't changed much. In the beginning, I saw major improvements in my marriage and avodas Hashem but now things seem to have come to a standstill. I feel like I am back to where I started, just without the masturbating. The rest of me is pretty much the same. 

You could say that I am changed and I just don't feel it. The second half is for sure true. 

I seem to be spending my life running away from myself. There seems to be something about me that I cannot live with, I just have no idea what it is. I spend my days learning davening and really giving it my all, and then something changes inside of me and I just can't do it anymore. I just need to look at everything in the street. I jut need to be with every woman that I see. I just wish that I had a chance with each of...

In other news, being that I wasn't being a "good boy" anyway, and needed an escape (from my wonderful life which I have no idea why I am escaping from) I was listening to some old Taylor Swift songs. (Thank G-d she doesn't put out anything worth listening to anymore.)

Is that bad? is that a "slippery slope? (I never was into her out of lust, although, the secular celebrity circuit ain't a safehouse either.) 

Perhaps I need a "healthy escape"? 

The issue is that when I am feeling like this, deep down, all I want to do is get back on track with my life. I have no interest in going on a vacation or "doing something fun" and the like, they just leave me feeling empty. What I really want most is to get back my motivation to do get on with life.

Something that I am struggling with (a concept) is that I am quite sure positive that if you would put an unfiltered device in front of me it would take minutes before I would be on YouTube indulging. Porn? Not sure, but Youtube makes it so easy. You can start off innocently, watching something inspiring or whatever, when curiosity then comes and kills the cat. And that's without the suggested watchlist. I've deleted my history a thousand times and there still seems to be more. Whatever. 

This could mean that I am a "normal healthy male." Not sure if every normal healthy male spends 98% of their time on YouTube looking at swimsuits and underwear. If that were the case, no one else would make any money. 

The other thing that makes me crazy is that I seem to find content on every website or app that exists. This really makes me think that there is something wrong with me. I mean what would posses a guy to look for stuff on "completely clean" websites. It could be because I have a strong filter, and that's all that I have access to. I had a whitelist of "clean" sites and my list is getting smaller and smaller. I guess I am getting more and more desperate, so I am searching through what I can?

This is a little nauseating to spell out but there are just some things that I can't get rid of. Like our wedding pictures and video, etc. It's something in me that's got to change, I think. 

I am trying to live with the truth, but it sure ain't easy. The truth might be too difficult to live with, hence we live in a lie. I am starting to think that the cycle of depression runs parallel with the cycle of the truth trying to make it's appearance.

Is there anything kosher that you get a thrill out of?

wilnevergiveup wrote on 30 May 2021 08:02:

Thanks for articulating, I relate to so much of what you write, it is extremely difficult to get out of this mindset. The one thing that I find helps somewhat is actually putting one foot in font of the other and connecting with our values, waiting for the mood to get a lift is an effort in futility. It's the actual doing the right things that lifts the pain somewhat.

Another thought that comes to mind is that this mindset usualy gets amplified when in Burn out mode. We don't always realize that we are emotionally exausted and we just need a break. It's ok, be compassionate to yourself. 

We also need to daven for divine intervention for us to feel and live all the good we do have in our lives.

Hashem Help Me wrote on 30 May 2021 20:27:

That I enjoy? Yes. Get a thrill out of? Not sure. I will have to give it some thought. I get a thrill out of trying new things that most people wouldn't bother with, but I am quite spent in this area, plus, these things tend to cost money. I like to go biking, I went on a 4 hour ride on Friday, but I can't find much time for that (even Friday was a hora'as sha'ah). I love swimming, maybe I can go to the beach? (Sperate of course! although in this state I would need a shomer because they are so close to the regular ones and "I was just looking to see if there was an empty area...")Maybe not a bad idea, and if I go with someone, I will even be forced to socialize. 

Thanks HHM for prodding. I appreciate it. 

In other news, I think I just beat my longest streak, I should probably celebrate although I don't feel like this last one was anything special. 

I asked because one needs to replace the thrill to some extent. It can be toned down a lot, but nevertheless, there has to be some replacement for the lost "excitement".

And yes, go celebrate. appreciate where you are up to and thank Hashem for it by sharing the celebration with others (without going into details....)

I've also dealt with depression many times with many different flavors.
One thing that worked for me was mentoring others. Sometimes a younger bochur in learning or just general guidance in like. Sometimes being a mentor to people also fighting this fight. It seems ironic that that would do something, but it did.
Anyway, keep in touch. We all care about you. And remember that while it would be great if you had a feeling of excitement about what you have done, what's even more important is the great value that it's actually worth, which is not dependent on whether you can emotionally feel its value or not.

Hashem Help Me wrote on 31 May 2021 11:29:

Thing is I do things a little extreme, like I used to work out, and unless I really go crazy it doesn't really give me a thrill (and I don't have time anymore for a full blown workout).

I really like learning, I wish I could get a thrill from it consistently. I wish I would just be able to get through a full zman on the thrill of learning itself. 

But, G-d obviously has other plans.

Okay, so I am working on the first step, I am powerless over lust (as per the doctors orders) and I realized that I am really powerless over a lot of things. There are really many areas of my life that are quite out of control.

I am powerless over my negative emotions because no matter how hard I try, or whatever I do, it just keeps on coming back. I obviously cannot change myself on my own. I obviously need help. "If you could have done it alone, you would have done it already." (I think I just gave away where I am from...)

So, I davened, really hard that Hashem (who is also "the G-d of my understanding," if anyone understands otherwise, feel free to share how you understand G-d) should help me with my issues. While it's true that I am powerless (and therefore may not go to Hell for it) I live in Hell on this world when I think that way. Hell here may be cooler than Hell up there, but I'd prefer neither.

Everyone I spoke with says the same thing, "get out of isolation." 

Not easy for a guy who struggles with self esteem. Sharing your struggles  is just about the scariest thing in the world. We need to be perfect and perfect people don't struggle.

Inspired by Brene Brown, (in her book "The Gifts of Imperfection" a must read for anyone who struggles with this) and with a special courage gifted to me from Hashem, I took a very difficult next step and opened up to a close family member. B"H it went really well. He is the first real person that I know and knows me that I ever opened up to about this.

Now that's called being vulnerable. I think Brene Brown would be proud. I shared, I am not perfect, and guess what? Neither is he! Shocking. This is a big step, hopefully one that will really help me.

Oh, and it turns out that he should probably be on GYE too.

Either way, progress, I hope.

Great thread, thank you for sharing everything with us.
Simon Sinek says something along the lines of dr. Brown: "Loving someone, is giving the power to this person to destroy you and yet this very person chooses not to". Of course I'm not advocating sharing your struggle with your wife. This seems to be a big machlokes tonoyim here lol. But what he says makes so much sense. Being vulnerable is about opening up and is a supreme proof of trust that the other won't squash you. It can also be one of the most courageous acts one can make.