Here is my question:

Do you believe not having to do with any girls at all until shidduchim helps keep bucherim clean?

Or do you think it ends up being detrimental to the bucherim and leaves us here, on GYE?

fresh start wrote on 10 Jun 2018 05:12:


For me I'm pretty sure if I had any serious involvement I would be worse off.

But here is my question:
Why does it matter?

fresh start wrote on 10 Jun 2018 05:12:

I think if bochrim saw girls out of wedlock that would throw the baby out with the bath water.

I don't think abstinence cause people to like pornography. It might cause people to want to look at women more, and that is helped by not being around women.

The women in porn are not like real women. Real women don't do it for you, they are seeking to gratify themselves, and the things that go on in porn turn them off, not on.

So having a girlfriend before getting married wouldn't keep you from using porn. Porn serves a totally different need than female companionship.

I don’t think the question was about having a girlfriend with intimate physical contact, just about loosening of the strict social separation. 

And I think that maintaining that strict isolation, and staying focused and involved in Torah learning, works very well for most bochrim to keep them out of trouble. Out of sight, out of mind. 

lifebound wrote on 10 Jun 2018 07:30:

Random. My wife thinks that had I been allowed some "kosher" fun with frum girls in high school I wouldnt have ended up how I did. And that the current yeshiva system may be another cause for so many addicts. I disagree. I believe that it is hard for teenage boys to make boundaries...So I decided to see if others agree with me or if she actually has a point.

Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 10 Jun 2018 11:37:

Yes, exactly what the question was. 

I think your wife has a point, but the problem is not exposure to girls as a teenager, but how horrific the possibility is in your mind. The loss of control in your mind, the attraction, is I think directly proportional to how assur the act is in your head. I think it depends a lot on the person.

I agree with gevurah for the most part that "And I think that maintaining that strict isolation, and staying focused and involved in Torah learning, works very well for most bochrim to keep them out of trouble. Out of sight, out of mind"

But for those bachurim that do fall and struggle like me, the fact that within the system  we have no one who to properly open to, not our parents nor our rabbeim, and we are expected to put on a show like we are huge masmidim and heavy duty tzaddikim, while at the same time we know we have an entire other life going on, there is a lot of harm that comes out of that. But thankfully i found GYE to once and for all properly seek the help i needed to deal with this struggle.

Anyways "fresh start" i see you have 777 clean days that's amazing how did you do it?

 Regards Yankel!

iampowerless wrote on 12 Jun 2018 14:12:

How is having a gf going to solve any of the problem you mentioned?

iampowerless wrote on 12 Jun 2018 14:12:

The original question was about prevention, not recovery. but as far as what you mentioned, I think that lately there has been an increase in awareness about these issues, partly due to this site. The younger generation of Roshei Yeshivos and Mashgichim are probably a lot more in tune with today's environment. So nowadays it's probably easier to find someone to talk to than in years past. when I was your age i didn't even have a Hava Amina that it was possible to open up to anyone about my struggles.

Then there's the small percentage of us for whom being in close contact with other guys all day (and night) only made the problem worse. I don't know if having the opportunity to socialize with girls would have made any difference in my case. There are those who claim that the strict gender separation leads to an increase in SSA. But that's a different brand of canned worm.

I also thought it was a change of subject.

Markz wrote on 12 Jun 2018 15:26:

Sorry for not being clear, you are right a gf will in no way change the problem that i mentioned. What i meant is growing up in an extremely frum house in which sex was never really explained properly to me, not by my parents or the system as such i had to figure it out all by myself, and the fact that it was such a taboo subject while i was growing up made it harder for me to reach out for help when i struggled!

And also the fact that it's taboo creates the desire where you feel like you can't help it.

I think Rabbis teach that some things are assur, but we are the ones that add the taboo feeling. Not everybody has it, they are not terrified.