waydown wrote:

no offense waydown but this looks is starting to look like ur previous thread. which wasn't exactly pleasant at times. being open minded is necessary for change, the ppl here (skep especially) know a helluva lot more then u do abt addiction.

waydown wrote:


Who's having an argument? I think Skep was just sharing his experience.

My experience is that I debated and theorised rather than talked about the practical because the practical was too real, too hard to look at. It was much easier for me to break my head trying to rediscover the deepest truths of the world than to just take an objective look at myself and answer the really important questions:

Is what I'm doing working?
Do I really want to get sober?

Hey, I have no idea, maybe you're sober and happy and you've already figured out what works for you. If that's the case then here's my answer to all your questions re addiction - mind your own damn business!

But if you find that you are relapsing more often than you want (which should mean relapsing just once), please consider leaving your old ideas aside for a short while and get into action.

Welcome to

Shlomo,

Re the main point that lust comes from one whose life is unmanageable

I think I stated very clearly that its a very plausible reason. I am not knocking that cause & effect at all.And it may in fact be the truth for many. All I am saying is, does that have to be the case for everyone? Don't some of us have different triggers?

I mean open minded does not mean believe everything is toras moshe msina.

And surely I can try to understand his point. i don't think thats a lack of open minddedness. Again one who is addicted to cigareets, is that becuase his life is unmanagable or is it simply because he enjoyed it at first and can't let go? Please explain why lust is differnet.

Very well said Watson!

Just one question re "Do I really want to get sober?"

Lets say the answer to that question is no. Now what??? Is there no hope then??? To be honest it a very good question and I am not entierly sure what the answer is. T be honest on days where my acting out makes life unmanagable I want to be sober. On days when my life is managable with lust perhpas I don't want to be sober. It circles us all the way back to my org post.
So now what say I don't want to be sober what should I do?

I personally find that I lust a lot more when I am not busy. I find boredom, lonliness, anger etc. to be big triggers for me.

Waydown, Have you analyzed what things tend to trigger you?

waydown wrote:


Hope for what? If you don't want to get sober what is it exactly that you're hoping for?

well watson, I know deep inside my heart that its both wrong and dangerous to my existence. And so deep inside I want to get sober from lust. But at the same time my mind tells me ok now its manageable. It won't kill you for now. So why not go for it? Relax a little.

And so to answer your question I hope for soberity because my heart knows its right. But my heart is stuffed (farshtupt) by mind telling me I don't need to be sober. So do I want to be sober? I don't know what the he... I want. All I know is my mind tells me one thing and my heart tells me something else.

Again so now what?

Gibbor120,

Yes.

For starters,

1) Intense Pressure (although sometimes it forces me not to trigger because I need concentraton so its a mixed bag)
2) Free time
3)Sitting or being near women (Very hard to avoid when i work in a secular enviornment although its just as bad when amoungst family with lots of girls as well)
4) Just a natrual misquito bit like itch that can be thrust upon me for no specifc reason.

waydown wrote:


Nothing. You're screwed.

Sorry to be so blunt but until you really want to get sober, for you not for Hashem or for yiddishkeit, nothing is going to work for you.

Could I talk with you over the phone? Please pm me your number.

Ooh isn't that gorgeous a shidich between the double you's!!!

Mazel Tov!!

WW3

wow Watson you are asking me to do something I never even did to my secret on-line affairs! I never give phone numbers. LOL! I'll send you my number

From the White Book:

What Is a Sexaholic and What Is Sexual Sobriety?

We can only speak for ourselves. The specialized nature of Sexaholics Anonymous can best be understood in terms of what we call the sexaholic. The sexaholic has taken himself or herself out of the whole context of what is right or wrong. He or she has lost control, no longer has the power of choice, and is not free to stop. Lust has become an addiction. Our situation is like that of the alcoholic who can no longer tolerate alcohol and must stop drinking altogether but is hookedand cannot stop. So it is with the sexaholic, or sex drunk, who can no longer tolerate lust but cannot stop.

Thus, for the sexaholic, any form of sex with one's self or with partners other than the spouse is progressively addictive and destructive. We also see that lust is the driving force behind our sexual acting out, and true sobriety includes progressive victory over lust. These conclusions were forced upon us in the crucible of our experiences and recovery; we have no other options. But we have found that acceptance of these facts is the key to a happy and joyous freedom we could otherwise never know.

This will and should discourage many inquirers who admit to sexual obsession or compulsion but who simply want to control and enjoy it, much as the alcoholic would like to control and enjoy drinking. Until we had been driven to the point of despair, until we really wanted to stop but could not, we did not give ourselves to this program of recovery. Sexaholics Anonymous is for those who know they have no other option but to stop, and their own enlightened self-interest must tell them this.

Good move Mr waydown. Please let us know how the call went. I know that a call with the doctor is well worth it -for me, even when he is calling for his needs.

B'hatzlachah