Can someone please explain the concept of powerlessness in laymans terms. If Cordnoy or Avraham from the 120 call is reading this I'd love to hear your explanation.

Here are my questions;

So we keep on saying that we are used to two choices either give in or fight but there is a third choice that we are powerless. What does that mean practically?

Say we are in the pizza store, at an amusement park, work etc.. and we are faced with lust. Ok so now we say we are powerless now what? I realize I don't want the lust but I am powerless. Ok so now can we just look and lust at the attractive female? After all hey we are powerless. It sounds like a feel good thing to me. It sounds like ok yes we don't want to do it so we just say he we are powerless then we can do what we want. Don't we still need to have the altitude that no we must fight lust? I just don't get what feeling defeat mean? Now what?

Unless you mean ok on the granular level when faced with a challenge yes we must fight. But our altitude about the fight must be that we can't win the fight alone. We must be part of a group reach out to others, reach out to hashem most importantly. So before we fight the battle we have to have a mindset that we need air power together witha our own gorund forces because we are powerless. But of course when faced with a challenge we must say no we are in power to stop us form falling. I am not so sure this solution is what you guys mean though.

Also you guys keep on saying "till now we thought we can't survive without our lust. But once we realize we are powerless we see we don't need the lust and we won't die." Well why is that connected to the powerless factor. Say I think I am powerful and I say lets declare war and go by a perido of time without giving into my lust, I will still realize that I don't need the lust and won't die. I don't see why admitting one is powerless is a key to realizng we won't die without lust.

Basiclly I need someone to explain the powerless rule in laymans terms because I just don't get it. Note I am not against that whitebook or SA handbook but please I don't relate to physcological jargon. I need it more lamasa. I just don't understand that lingo. Please explain this in simple terms. I am not knocking at all that approach, I just don't speak that language and don't get it. So I need some help for us simpletons.

waydown wrote:


Instead of clenchin' your fist and fightin' the urge (as if you can be victorious), you simply turn to God and say, "God, I cannot control myself; please help me."

Ok very nice so I say a nice tefila to g-d instead of clenching my fist. Now what? Can I now look at that lady? Can I now give in to my lust? I just don't get it? All I have to do is say "God, I cannot control myself; please help me" and magic the lust disappears? How about when lying in bed just say that tefila and bye bye lust?????? You see its a nice theory but how is it practical?

You are playing God.

I asked the same question a long time ago.

Just try it.

B'hatzlachah

I try it every nite and it doesn't work. When I say hamipal I have that in mind and I still feel the lust kickin in. The only way I win is by fighting which you say is wrong? So what more should I do? I think you are oversimplifying it. I am not saying its nothing but it surely ain't the magic bullet.

Surrenderin' is part of a 12 step process; it is not a remedy in a vacuum.

You can ask all the questions you'd like, and they are valid, but when the program is based upon "livin' with God," ultimately, He decides if it will work or not. The literature states that some might question the logic, and that others who have undergone this recovery will not be able to explain it, and so be it. All they are sayin' is that this is somethin' that has worked by us; you wanna try it? Come on in and I'll hold your hand throughout; you don't want, that's also fine....I'll try my best to help you anyway.

There are naysayers on this site, but there are plenty that are livin' a nice comfortable life, sayin' that when the struggle hits, we simply surrender; was it more difficult in the beginnin'? Yes, it was, but it gets easier.

b'hatzlachah

Again chas vsholom am I arguing on that approach. I am trying to understand logically what that means. So far I have not gotten an explanation.

And from my experience it hasn't gotten rid of my lust. I won't deny that its a useful tool. But it just seems not to be the magic bullet.

My startegy is say a tefila and realize that I alone can't fight. But at the same time I must try to fight. Part of fighting has been ok rather than falling asleep via masterbating listen to the radio, get your mind off the lust. And if it tempts you push it away.

Bottom line are you suggesting that I should rethink my startegy? Should I not try to outsmart my lust? Should I just say a tefila, relaize I am powerless and thats it? How do you suggest I fall asleep tonite? What should I do when lust hits? Again I am not cirtcizing your approach at all. But I need to know how to make it come into play.

yes you should rethink your strategy?
will you need to fight at the end? perhaps.
if the choice is to fall or to fight, I'd rather the fight, but that is not the strategy.

the strategy is: God, help me please, for I cannot do this alone.

what's next? that is none of our business; that is not part of the game plan.

b'hatzlachah

What da Hell is surrender?

What is our @#$%&! job?

So should I choose distractions should as listen to the radio when I fall asleep or don't bother just trust in hashem? Do I take my radio with me to bed??

Pidaini, Skep and Gibbor (perhaps others as well) explain surrender; and Chesky sums it up!

waydown wrote:


Read all the threads i just posted....especially the last one.

OK so let me try to layout my thought process and tell me if I am on the right track. When I go to sleep tonite I won't be thinking Ok lets prepare for battle and fight it. Rather I'll be thinking like this. That lust dude he isa devil I really can't beat him. So now let me try to do stuff so that he won't come. If changing my style of falling asleep works go ahead. and I will daven to hashem to ensure that he stays out of my room rather than entering my room and fighting. I will not worry about the what if hes sneaks in my room.

Is that the takeway from all this??

waydown wrote:


No

Even if he enters your room, daven, surrender and repeat as needed.