Thanks Serenity for the chizuk.

Well to be honest I am a bit confused re "it's small when we have a Power greater than ourselves with us."

What does that mean in laymans terms. Whats the power greater than ourselves? Sorry I know that term its often used as a step towards recovery. But I don't fully get it. Do you mean we need to realize that only through hashem's help can we succeed? Or do you mean something like this. Every person has an inner power thats kind of greater than himself. He doesn't see it or tap into it on a daily basis but its there. For example when there is a fire our adrenlain kicks in and we can run away from taht fire quicker than we were ever able to run in our life.

I also don't really understand physcology jargon. So forgive me if I ask you to put it in laymans terms.

7 days free!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats right finally free for one week and I feel great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last nite was a hard one. My wife was under the weather and not in the mood while I was. Motzai shabbos is always the hardest for some reason. (I think on general people are in a wilder partish mood on M shabbos.) But I purposley didn't sleep much shabbos afternoon so that I can fall asleep easier on M Shabbos. It helped but I still twisted and turned. And I woke up early rather than scumming my lust dose this morning too!

Oh and the thought of falling when I have almost reached one week kind of held me back too.

I didn't mean to represent that I have the answers, just have food for thought. And I didn't mean to be too esoteric, what I was saying was inspired by Muhammad Ali .


"I'm not even going to realize how I did it. I might say, how'd I do that? ... God, I'm His tool. God gave me that image. The purpose is for my people. This man looks slow. God made this man look like a little kid. The so called "right hand" ain't nothing now. I'm gonna walk right into him. I'm gonna take his shots, because I have God on my side. I'm thinking that my people are free and I can help with just one fight. Now he looks little in comparison to what I'm getting from it. He ain't nothing now. But if I think about me. Me and George Foreman. He knocked out Joe Frazier like he was God. George Foreman knocked out Ken Norton. The press ranked me to tire out. I'm not looking at the world and what they say. My God controls the world!" Muhammad Ali talks about upcoming fight with George Foreman in 1974.

And Just to add another good one that talks about what you are saying: "Only a man who knows what it is like to be defeated can reach down to the bottom of his soul and come up with the extra ounce of power it takes to win when the match is even."

And while we are doing Ali quotes, here is one on topic: "You can't keep your mind on fighting when you're thinking about a woman. You can't keep your concentration. You feel like sleeping all the time."

8 days free!!!!!!!!!

Serenity,

Once again I appoligize, I am just a bit slow when it comes too these cute pyscoligical stories & quotes. So in laymans terms what does it mean that we have to turn to a poer greater than us? Do you mean a power within us greater than what we ever preceived we had to fight? Or do you mean strentghen our emuna in Hashem or perhaps a third term?

(I think from Mohamd Ali you are suggesting that both my first two choices are correct)

waydown wrote:


I will let Serenity answer for himself, but when we are referrin' to Ali and to the greater power, it was this quote that I thought was appropriate:

waydown wrote:


Once I'm sendin' you to the legends, here is a brief thread regardin' 'the itch.'
Mosquitos!!!!!!

I think you're on solid ground with both of those concepts. I seem to recall somewhere in AA or SA literature both of those ideas. It definitely fits into Torah, as far as I understand it.

Reach deep within ourselves and find power and reach outside of ourselves and find power. If God is that power for us, all the better! May we find Him now!

"Actually we were fooling ourselves, for deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself.

We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for a friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly, but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He may be found. It was so with us." From AA - Chapter to the Agnostic

Ok so unfortunatley I did fall last night but I am not sad about it. I will just start again.
Just to cut myself some slack, I had a really hard time falling asleep last nite but I didn't give in. However, I was forced to wake up twice in middle of the night. ( for my kids) By the second time of waking up (3rd struggle of the nite) I finally just gave up fighting and scummbed. Its not an excuse but the yetzer hara was sure at work last nite. He doesn't stop.

I will not get sad. Rather I will dust it off and start anew.As someone who never went to sleep without my dose, I feel that I am already off to a good start. Here is why,

Basiclly there are two reasons that I am here,

1) I am jewish. Form a yiddishkit point of view my behavior (and what it can lead to) is unaaceptable. I know this can't be our driving factor but nevertheless is defintley something to reckon with. In fact GYE's ad is about feeling like a hypocrit in front of the rav! So judiasm and moral values has to play some role. That being said, I say I am off to a good start. This rosh hashana I can turn to hashem and say hey look I ain't perfect. But if I can go 8/9 days (Hpefully weeks) with no sins when prior to ellul it was daily thats teshuva. Plus,as long as I have my eye on the ball (and don't allow it to be a dily occurance rather a slip) I won't let myself spiral out of control to the point of porn/flirting etc..

2) The lust issue. Yes its an addiction and feeding it is no good and its dangerous.Of course I think even wihholding for a 8 days somewhat attacks the addiction too proviidng you don't spiral back. However leaving aside that pointer, its a confidence builder. Right now I still don't see how you guys can hold back for 90 days. ( and 18 yrs! fuggedaboutit!!!) But now I see how one can reach say one month.

So I will continue my journey as Codrnoy suggests one day at a time. I will also not got down if I fall. To the contrary I am proud of what I have done till now and I expect to fall every now &then.

waydown wrote:

We are all proud of you.
Just a few questions:
Why do you expect to fall? It seems pretty counterproductive.
Also, what do you mean by continuing one day at a time? Isn't that what you've been doing until now?
Keep up the good work

Re why do I expect to fall?

Because I am sick. People with diseases have outbursts every now & then. I don't believe this is a disease (like a common cold that completley goes away). Its rather a disease thats here to stay and tsick around my entire life time. (Hopefully I will live long enough that I will ned viagra. But until then...!) I have to learn how to best minimize it so it dosen't take over my body.I don't think thats counterporductive. I think I am being a realist. And its my understanding that if you don't expect to ever fall when you do fall it will throw you off guard and send you into a downward spiral.

Re one day at a time.

This concept was mentioned often. Of course we need to have a larger goal. But when that 90 day challenge seems like too tall of a mountain the trick is Ok don't think about 90 days (wow thats a long time for an addict like me). hink about not falling today. Of course in the back of my mind I have this greater desire to stay clean forever. but if I let my mind wander and worry how will I stay clean when I am ... or what if.... can I really stay clean? It then allows me to form a sense of despair. So thats why i tell myself ok its a nice idea to stay clean forever or 90 days etc... And I should strive for it. But right now its not my goal. Right now lets stay celan today. Can I do one day? Yes I can.
This is just my take and I know you guys may disagee especially on my first pointer.

waydown wrote:


your two paragraphs are semi-contradictin'.
Livin' one day at a time means that we are not worried about tomorrow.
And your logic that this way if it happens, you won't get bent outta shape - please; save it; you'll be fine either way.

b'hatzlachah

Re "Livin' one day at a time means that we are not worried about tomorrow."

True we are not "worried" is the key. But we realize we may fall. Its not a contradiction to being a realist. We look at one day at a time knowing that each day including today we may fall although are altitude has to be we will try hour hardest to conquer today.

Re "And your logic that this way if it happens, you won't get bent outta shape"

I see many post with lingo such as I am depressed now what all because they fell. Whats more I have seen through my years guys who have had lots of ups & downs. One of their biggest problems were they were flying high and doing great. The second they fell, they felt like oh now is all lost so the heck with it. Not to realize that one may fail is a proven receipe for disaster.

Bottom line I see nothing wrong with being a realist and accepting that you may fail. Just have a game plan how to dust it off.

R' Waydown, I sent you an email, but it bounced.

Mine is thenewme613@hotmail.com

thanks