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Solutions for Tonight

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A platform of recovery for Jews who find themselves struggling with addictions to pornography, masturbation or other sexual problems. Post anonymously about your struggles without fear of anyone finding out who you are. Ask questions, post answers and be inspired! Get tips and guidance from the experts who moderate this forum, as well as from fellow strugglers.

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TOPIC: Solutions for Tonight 143893 Views

Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 16:49 #278912

shlomo24 Current streak: 1 day OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 2213 Karma: 135	I never convinced myself of anything. The facts stared me straight in the eye.
	If you're an LGBTQ or LGBTQ-questioning person and looking for someone who can understand you, feel free to reach out. I promise no judgement and to try and listen the best I can. Email: iam24zman@gmail.com

Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 17:00 #278913

Markz
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waydown wrote:

Cords,

So are you saying that unless I convince myself that I am selfish and life in unmanageable there is no hope???? I never said I need others to convince me that I am selfish. I need others to help me stop. But realize that its not a one size fits all. Every cancer has a differnet DNA. And in my case my lust seems differnet than yours. So I need to layout my DNA and work based on that.

And by the way I hate the word "selfish" and will leave that out. Here is how I describe myself;
I am very extremely caring of others and would go to the other side of the world to help out another jew and family member. I try to never put myself before others. When others are not directly involved I like to statsify my needs I am a big bal tavia. I never make my wife make me supper but I hate going hungry so I buy food instead of just grabbing cereal and milk for supper. I hate being tried and always like putting in a full nights sleep. I am very into satsifying my desires. And when I lust I love satisfying myself. But never at the expense of others. (If you will ask me so don't you know that flirting with a shiktza hurts others? Its not tangeable pain. Its an indirect intellectual pain. You rationilize that it will never come to frution. And I have zero intention of hurting yenim. Furthermore, the big drive not to continue flirting is because while its not tangeable pain, its pretty obvious that it can cause some real pain to lots of other people.) I have no clue how you want to phrase it and if the words you use to phrase my perosnality shtimes with webster or not. (Perhaps every single other guy who lusts loves to hurt other people. I have never conducted a study on lusters. I only talk for myself)

Bottom line is this I am a very caring sensible individual but when nothing tangeable hurts others I like to satisfy myself. This is my DNA. Also there are no external forces causing me to lust other than my itch. So I am asking the choshuva GYE olim for help in how to deal with my DNA.

If your DNA allows, please see wiki 'self diagnosis'

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Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 17:02 #278914

Yesod
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waydown wrote on 23 Feb 2016 16:29:

Hey bro, you are a nice guy, but 28 "I"s in a couple paragraphs kind of says it clear. You are into yourself. That ain't bad, but it is what it is.

The sad truth is that us lusters are into ourselves, period. We couldn't of grown this illness without giving the garden of our ego alot of care and attention.

Even the kindness we do is wrapped up in ourselves, let alone the indulgences.

We just have to jump into gd and his will, though it's easier said than done.

Either way, Hatzlacha

Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 17:22 #278917

waydown
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Real simcha,

Thats my point though.I totally live my life for others. I often put myself out there for whomever it may be. Whether my wife kids or friends. I am willing to cause pain to myself if it helps yenim. I utilize lots of my free time helping others. But when I have a free minute to stasify my desires I do so. Because I am a bal tavia. I hut don't see in myself the stira or oxymoron between living for others and enjoying myself too. Again this is just me. Maybe others differ

Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 17:28 #278918

waydown
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Yesod,

Again I will talk about me. I don't think I have an ego problem. I am not better than many others. And I don't believe I deserve anything. But I still like satisfying my desires. Not because I hold of myself but just like why not if its fun and I get satiated why not. Yes I like good food too.

I also often take myself out of the equation of kindness. I will do kind stuff where nobody knows about , and where I get very little credit for it .And often those acts can be a big pain in the neck. In fact I define true altrustic chesed is when one does chesed that he hates doing and gets no credit for it.

Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 17:28 #278919

Workingguy
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waydown wrote on 23 Feb 2016 16:13:

Working Guy,

Here is the way my crazy mind works. So if I don't commit the unmanageable sins such as fliritng and I just masturbate then I am safe. So flirting is unmanageable but masturbating is manageable. I know it doesn't make so much sense. Because yes unless I treat the core lust issue the buck won't stop at simply masterbating. But in my crazy mind i just have to draw a line that I won't cross and then OK. This is where I have to build it up and convince myself that all lust in unmanaegable and you can't split the two.
And my life outside lust is surely manageable. In that case I have no outside factors other than the itch that cause me to lust.

WD,
We all have the crazy mind that makes all these silly cheshbonos that make no sense, but it's because we want to rationalize so we can continue. I totally understand that.

But the truth is that we're totally lying to ourselves bc we know that Jewishly it's not allowed, we know that we want to hide it from our wives and that we can't really think having secrets from our wives is good for our marriage. And we also know that it usually messes up our intimacy, our happiness with our wives in the bedroom, and a million other things.

From a rational perspective (and of course addiction or an itch or whatever isn't rational) it actually makes sense not to have hidden sexual behaviors bc our sex lives would be better, and we wouldn't feel like sneaking cheaters.

But on the other hand, who ever gives up an enjoyable behavior unless they have to?

So if others can help you stop, great! But what do you want to hear from them that would make you say "Hey, good point, I still love it but you made me decide to give it up?"

What would that be?

Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 17:28 #278920

waydown OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 670 Karma: 7	Shlomo, So say its doesn't stare me straight in the eye? is there no hope to stop?

Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 17:40 #278922

Markz
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This was posted 2 minutes ago
OTR wrote:

I tend to think that a lot of people have the "all or nothing" problem. I know I do. The addict in me just says, to heck with it, you already acted out a little, just forget it and give in.... which is where l begin to totally not recognize myself.. Sobriety for a little while... even a day is still better than none.

Waydown - if I was in your shoes I'd masturbate in the daytime too - can you explain what stops you when you're awake...

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Last Edit: 23 Feb 2016 17:49 by Markz.

Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 18:24 #278928

waydown
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Markz,

Firstly,When I am awake I must go on and do stuff with my life. Even if I get an itch Ok I must do stuff.When I go to sleep at night thats when you relax your mind and mediidate a bit. You can't physically do stuff when falling asleep. Part of winding down and relaxing from the day is to let out some lust, thoughts and fantasies that have been circling my mind throughout the day.
Secondly, masturbating is a physical thing that sooths me and puts me to sleep. i actually try to avoid doing it by day because after I masturbate I get tired and need to rest. At night is when I want to rest.

Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 18:25 #278929

Workingguy
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waydown wrote on 23 Feb 2016 17:28:

WD,
While I feel like things are going in circles already, I definitely commend you for keeping on going and trying to come from all angles to see if anyone comes up with anything compelling. So far you have an answer for everyone as to why you're different and not selfish and it's just an itch, so let's see what the oilam can share with you that's relevant to you.

I want to share one thing of my own. In my head, I was the most selfless people pleaser out there- I lived for everyone else. How could I be selfish? So I found out something else- that maybe my acting out was bc I was so selfless.

I was so busy putting everyone else's needs first that it was a painful existence- it gets tired being so nice, and in my head there was a "what about me?" Everyone else around me seemed to have a way to get their needs met, but not me. I was always sacrificing.

But there was one place I got it- masturbating. I was so deprived of just plain selfish pleasure- but legitimate ones like just taking time for myself- that it's almost like my body said- here, you give so much, you're on empty, take THIS, it tastes great.

I wonder if you think your itch might be a need to give yourself some pleasure bc you feel like your always giving. (My therapist says that some of the nicest people pleasers have the worst addictions bc they never take for themselves).

Let me know your thoughts.

And I'll tell you one thing- you've definitely got this forum on fire!

Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 18:27 #278930

waydown OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 670 Karma: 7	working guy, Good point as usual you put it down so nicely. I guess I want to hear from guys who did not have the will power yet knew they must stop and successfully stopped. I want to know what they did to stop. How did they force themselves to stop?

Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 18:34 #278932

waydown
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Working Guy,

Your analysis is defintley a thought provoking one. I never thought about your idea. So I can't respond yet. It deifntely seems contradictory to the 12 steps idea or the notion that lusters sare selfish people. But then again you can argue that based on your theory, it really is a selfish mida. Because no midda is good to an extreme. So one you run one way the body pulls you the other way. I am am confused and don't really make sense. As I said it needs thought but I do like the concept.
As a side note they do say that they yetzer hara for zenus does come from the mida of chesed. so maybe there is a connection.

Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 19:19 #278936

cordnoy
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waydown wrote on 23 Feb 2016 16:29:

I did not tell you to convince yourself of anything.
I took issue with people trying to convince you or argue with you that indeed your life is unmanageable.
I also have been commenting that there are many ways towards recovery, and not one size fits all.
I see in the post above you are asking for help, and that is good, and I have given suggestions throughout this thread.
I will withhold now from offering suggestions, for you are in the habit of dismissing advice that was offered before.

I am opened for a call, at your convenience.

B'hatzlachah

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Re: Solutions for Tonight 23 Feb 2016 21:21 #278954

Workingguy
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waydown wrote on 23 Feb 2016 18:34:

Let me explain it a little more, and it's good for me too to review it. People are supposed to have a healthy balance of self-interest and care for others. When one is secure in their own needs, they are able to give to others and care for them in a healthy way.

R' Shimon Shkop points this out in his introduction to Shaarei Yosher. Hillel says "If I am not for myself, who is? But if I am only for myself, then who will be?" R' Shkop says that it is important for us to have self-interest, and use that self interest to expand our sense of self to include those around you.

So, I have to love myself first, then make my spouse a part of me, and then my family is a part of me, and the circle gets bigger. But where it starts is with your self. He explains that "ve'ahavta lereiacha kamocha" indicates that you have to love yourself in order to love your friend. Once you know how to properly love yourself, you can expand that to others.

Many addicts (using that term generally whether you consider yourself an addict or not) don't have enough self love or self care, and care about others before they care for themselves. But what happens to their own needs? Out of some sense of self deprivation, what happens is an extreme reaction- which IS selfish and jives with the twelve steps completely- of focusing on their own pleasure by acting out.

These same people who have been successful in negating their own needs in regular matters find it near impossible when it comes to sex, drugs, alcohol, or the addiction of their choice b/c the pleasure is so great.

That's how I've seen it play out within my own experience, and with others that I know. It might be something to explore, but again, only you know your own experiences.

Re: Solutions for Tonight 24 Feb 2016 00:24 #278977

Hashivalisesonyishecho
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Workingguy, I feel that your point is valid. I used to make a similar point when I started posting a while ago, but with a slightly different twist. I felt that I wasn't fulfilling my potential and I wasn't building myself and my success enough as I felt I should, and therefore had a feeling of emptiness and hopelessness so I took to some bad things out of yiush and the feeling that I have nothing anyway. The common element between that and what you're saying here is that when we don't get what we need for ourselves it could bring us to do these bad things.

The only thing I should add though is that once one gets into the habit, regardless of why, then it becomes a problem of it's own and will need treatment independent of treating the cause, so even if you end up taking care of your void, now that this is a habit and something of a second nature and the barriers have been broken, it needs treatment for the addiction - (addiction mamash is lav davka)