If you haven't done so yet, I would highly recommend reading chapter 5 of the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" (the Big book). Aside from the recovery aspect, it gives a fascinating insight into helping us recognize where we have been "more" selfish at times.

Thanks Moish I just went thru it and will read it again when I get a chance.

Right now while lots of pointers are nice overall it doesn't seem to describe me and I just fail to see the connection between a luster and "selfish" ( I don't get how its connected to an alchohlic either. But I am not an alcoholic so that doesn't concern me.)

If you read it carefully, you will notice that the actual content has very little to do with alcoholism. I am not an alcoholic either. You can remove every reference to alcohol and replace it with "jelly beans" and the content remains virtually unchanged.

I just think that there is another faucet not discussed. This comes into play whether we discuss if one is selfish or not or whether we say that lust stems from depression or low self esteem or pressure in life verse stam an addiction like starting to smoke.
(In my case although being raised charedi my own upbringing was not makpid on tznuis from dirty magazines to televisions to even openly showing love and so to me while rabbiem said it was bad in my mind it was't really so bad. So why not explore lust. Then the addiction kicks in. I don't see my lust as stemming from the typical suggested reasoning But leaving out my specific case)
The question is, is all lust one size fits all? Or better yet do solutions have to be custom tailored towards my specific DNA? Or no just follow the 12 steps even if it doesn't resonate and doesn't seem to address my DNA? (Is it kind of like experts are suggesting about cancer? Every cancer has its own DNA. Although there are some general medications applicable to all a targeted chemo to ones own genes maybe the answer. May no one on GYE nor their family ever have to remotely get near this cancer discussion). It would seem like the underlying consensus is that the 12 steps generally is for all no matter what ones DNA is.

waydown wrote:

Source?

Moish,

I have no source Henceforth I wrote "it would seem". I am basing my "assumption" totally on the mood of the forum which suggests that everyone is ultimately selfish or everyone has an underlying problem and lust doesn't come simply from an addiction like smoking. I have absolutely no proof to this. Its totally based on my observations of hanging around GYE. This is why I posted my question and I'd like to hear all sides.

NEW POLL TO ALL USERS

Do you consider yourself selfish?



Markz - Yes

Waydown- NO

It's interesting that you seem to be making the assumption that everybody who views porn and masturbation as selfish acts is a "stepper."

Moish,

My grammer is not that great so forgive me. I had to google the word "steeper"

Anyhow my greater point, I am not a physicologist nor a social worker and I don't contend that I know why "everyone" does something. I just know myself and question if conventional wisdom is one size fits all?

I apologize. It's probably a chisaron on my part, but I don't understand what you mean.
What I meant by "stepper" is "someone who takes the actions of the 12 steps."

Again, you seemed to imply that anyone who thinks of porn and masturbation as selfish, is someone who is a member of the 12 step program. Am I mistaken in my understanding?

(Also, if anyone is interested in joining my informal study, they can share their opinion here: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/272099-Is-pornography-and-masturbation-selfish )

I have been following this conversation in a cursory way and haven't chimed in with my 2 cents because I don't really see the point. Selfish shmelfish! A nafka mina? So then what's wrong with masturbating? A gevaldige kashe! If you need someone else to tell you to stop and to explain why it's wrong then the chances of you being serious enough to do what it takes to change your ways are slim, my son. If you want to be a good Jew and stop just because The Torah says so, then what's there to question? If this is just a lomdishe study to be doresh taamei dekra, then you might do better asking in a bais midrash or asking the humble scholar who sits in the back and has all the answers to the toughest hashkofo shailos. But if you want to stop simply because masturbating makes you feel like a lowly slob then who cares to understand it, just stop and start feeling like a respectable mentch.

I hear where u are coming from but I think that is dependent on the person for some understanding what's the nature of the addiction helps them work on it better.

take it easy wrote:
Hi Mr TIE, welcome to the hearty forum, if you'd like to introduce yourself where you are coming from we'd love to share our journey together

I just have a hard time get in my head around what looks to me like guys join this website and I promise you TOTAL recovery is possible, and we squander it

Hi and thank you. Very much for the warm and welcoming invitation to this forum. I really get. A lot of chizuk from all the people who post on this forum so thank you. I am here to stop a masterbation problom that started in my early teen years.