sorry, but foreplay has nothin' to do with our lust discussion.

This thread may be helpful regarding this specific discussion: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/212843-The-Line-Between-Lust-and-Attraction-To-Ones-Wife

@Waydown

What Cords is saying is that foreplay and lust aren't inherently connected

Sexual desire is not the same as lust.

When we talk about lust we are referring to a self centered, egotistical I don't really give a damn about yenem attitude.

When you focus on your wife and making sure she feels loved, satisfied and cared for, the foreplay is a completely different metzius.

Eli

Ok so I want to stay on topic and don't want to get into the whole lust thing now. I will just say I browsed the forum for a bit. Yes its heresay, a thin line and it depends how narrow you transalate lust.Either way you need to feel a ceratin attraction and enjoyment with your wife.

This is not a discussion for now though. Circling back to my main point. Masterbating is defintley a physcial thing. Perhaps a physcial illness as the moderator points out. I would venture to say its a mixture. Everyone has a certian amount of itching. One who has an extreme obsessive amount probably has a higher level of testorine.

The longer you ignore it, the easier it will get.
That's what they tell me, at least.

And there are ways to recovery.....
Don't give up on any one way!
Take recovery slow....one moment at a time, and see what works for you.

b'hatzlachah

Eli,

Agreed then in that case I just have a very overly strong sexual desire and no lust. Because even when I have a strong urge its always gentle and never in an imposing manner. Ok so glad we got that out of the way.

it is certainly possible. Self diagnosing is harder than it looks.

Start something, anything and as you progress you'll see what works and what doesn't work. That will slowly guide you to the appropriate approach if you are sincere.

Welcome to the forum waydown!

I don't know which forum you were browsing on, but most of us have very similar struggles. I personally have a much bigger problem watching porn than I do with masturbating.

Regarding yourself and your question as to where to start, I would venture to say that the first step is self awareness. Try and notice what feelings you have during and before you get your so called "itches". You may start noticing a pattern, stress, fear, guilt, pain, etc.

Also, being in touch with friends who understand you and to whom you can converse with honestly is a foundation for any approach you may use.

So, Mazal Tov!!! You have already started your first step!! Seriously!!

Keep On Posting!! Although some replies may seem harsh, it is just us sharing the truth that we found to be true in our own experience.

KOP!! KOMT!!!!

Pidaini,

I will agree stress defintley exasperates the problem. And I do have lots of job related stress. But I will tell you that at times its not due to any particular feeling at all. It could be after a nice calm unstressful shabbos. (Its always the worse on M shabbos. I think shabbos foods don't help. As the gemara says regarding certain foods not to be eaten erev yom kippur.) Like I mentioned earlier of course there is a mental aspect but there is also just a physical hormomone urge.

Many of us have this disease of the body and of the mind, but most of us understand that we can take steps towards recovery. It sounds like you wanna throw in the towel before beginnin' and whatever reasonin' anyone tries, you will have a response, so perhaps take a step back and listen to what others are sayin' and look around the site. As much as you'd like to think differently, you ain't no different than us lust addicts, myself included.

b'hatzlachah

waydown

How about an adult with chicken pox. Is there such a thing as distraction? A person is driving a car and has chicken pox and suddenly the car in front of him stops short and he smashes his car right into it. Suddenly (at least for the moment), he forgot to about his chicken pox. Why? Nothing changed about the skin condition, everything is connected with our brain. I'm not saying that there isn't a physical element as well, but typically a lot of the healing comes from our minds. There have been people who have taken medicine to lower their sex drive like one might take a anti-diarrheal pill to help with the bathroom sitch. But as far as I know, most people are successful in battling lust through our minds. Now I don't profess to be G-D so I may be wrong, but I believe that we should be open to hearing what others are have to say.
Anyway, I don't think that I ever saw so many posts and views to a thread on it's first day. Congratulations.

WElCOME! A lot of good stuff has already been said. You are very far from being the worst on GYE. I don't think any of us are shocked by your story. It sounds pretty common to me.

Breaking free can be painful at the beginning, but as long as you hold on to any form of lust, masturbation, pornography, even checking out a coworker, you are just feeding it. As we say here, "the more you feed it, the more you need it".

Breaking free can feel like hell in the beginning, just like a drug addict suffering withdrawal.

Over time, it will get easier, not easy, but easier.

Read the handbook, read the forum. Keep posing. Just knowing that we are just like you and understand can be a big help. People in much worse situations than yours are in recovery today. It can be done.

Keep us posted. We are here for you.

One more thing. It is a progressive disease. Untreated, it only gets worse, not better. There is no treading water here. Think about what you stand to lose if you do nothing. I know recovery can hurt like hell, but think about the alternative. Your wife catches you... then what. I went through that, it's not pretty .

You only have 2 choices.

1 - do nothing
2 - do something

Recovery is hard in the beginning, but makes life sweet in the end. It makes every aspect of your life better.

Gibbor120,

Thanks your posts have been one of the most encourging so far.

I will perhaps rephrase my question. Where do I start tackling my issues? Do I jump to the core root of my problem and attack my masterbation issues? After all withought that lust I wouldn't do porn and flirt.

Or perhaps thats too tall of a mountain to attack at this point. Perhaps the first thing to attack is its feeders. That is attack watching porn and flirting with ladies. And leave the masterbation problem for last.

I am more inclined to pick the latter. I feel peeling away the problem like peeling an onion slowly one leaf at a time is far smarter than trying to attack to the core and rough stem. Thats kind of why I feel like just leave the masterbation alone for now. Let it be what it is. But peel away on the things that exasperates the masterbation. Once that is under control then I can try tackling the root.

Do I make sense or am I totally misguided?