One thing that always keeps me feeling down after a fall (may it never happen again!) is the thought of ring Tameh, or rather the uncertainty. It almost always happens on Fridays, and then I'm terribly embarrassed and totally ashamed to eat at this great Rav's house, because of my tumah. And more than anything I'm afraid of shaking anyone's hand and so forth...

Well can I get clarification? Does anyone know about any tuma involved and how long etc so that my mind can be at ease?

I am not well versed in this subject but I know, as i believe Dov would say: is Tumah really going to prevent us from falling? Will it really? So i would think we should leave Tumah out of the equation for the time being.

Perhaps I'm wrong, just a thought.

In any case: KOL!

i agree with dms but if you are really concerned just take a trip to the mikva and start again.
Or even better just move on and try to get to the root of what is causing you to act out. when you are clean for a while then you can think about the tuma issue. won't help you right now.

I don't understand why you people are discussing the issue of whether the thought of tuma will help in recovery or not. Optimistic did not choose to use the subject as a recovery tool, he was just asking for advice on how to deal whith his fears and discomforts in relation to the tuma feeling.
I don't think Dov or anyone for that matter would say that we have to ignore all and any other feelings and emotions we have, and think about nothing else at all other than our addiction and how to recover from it.

One should wash negel vasser after touching any body part that is usually covered.

Optimistic wrote:


Hi Optimistic,

I question the words because of my tumah. I offer you a different version, because of my perceived tumah. This is isnt to say there is or is not tumah. But the part that is keeping you down is your perception and belief of your status as impure. Whether you are indeed tomei or not is irrelevant to your feeling low. It isnt the tumah itself doing it, it is your reaction to the knowledge of it.

Perhaps what you need to be wrestling with is self acceptance. Accept that it is a very very hard nisayon. Believe that the Gadol you are eating with had he grown up in your shoes would likely be in a very similar situation to you. Recognise that if the Gadol could see your struggles and not judge you based on his own experiences but the way God judged you, he wouldnt look down on you.

When you say Tomei, do you mean Tumah like when you touch a dead person? Or do you mean repulsive? If it is the latter, I fail to see why God or a Gadol who truly understood your situation would be repulsed by someone who gave into such a strong inclination. We are human after all.

We can fight, sure! Keep fighting. But how many people do you see overcoming something very hard on their level? You dont see many such things in a year! Dont blame yourself when you sin. Realise that the enemy is extremely powerful and most would fail too.

Think to yourself, if you were God and you gave this Nisayon to a person such as yourself, would you have more understanding for yourself then you actually do currently?

Hi and thank you for sharing,

I identify with your issue. Before I came to terms that my acting-out was an addiction/sickness, I could only relate to it with the religious ideas. As others have pointed out, for someone who is addicted the religious issue is really not part of the equation.

shivisi wrote:

In response to the above i would say that for someone who is an addict, "fears and discomforts" of feeling "dirty" and "tameh" is obsessive thinking and harmful. It is part of the addictive process which eventually causes us to act-out again. (Besides, is spiritual tumah really an emotional feeling?)

For me it has taken a long time to give up those feelings. I have learnt that I am as powerless over them as i am over lust!

May HaShem give us a day of sobriety, sanity and serenity.

Hey guys, thanks so much for all the input. Although I didnt' reply until now, it all helped very much.
A side-story:
That Shabbos of the week I wrote this, I was waiting for the Rav to come out of shul so I could accompany him home as I always did, and I was thinking about the tuma thing, and I agreed with myself that I would shake his hand only if he offers first. (This was after a fall of course). Well, the first thing he did when he saw me was extend his hand enthusiastically towards me, before even reaching my 4 amos! It was completely unexpected and it made me very happy.

Since then I have overcome those feelings--with much thanks to all you guys, and some other private conversations I've had on this site. I'm focusing on overcoming the addiction and being as happy as I can after a fall (may we have no more), and focusing on keeping my mind on Torah and Mitzvos.

Optimistic wrote:


Acceptance leads to happiness

That was a great story.
It really shows you that הבא לטהר מסייעין אותו.

Sometimes that smile from Hashem that reminds us that He's watching is all we need to get through a nisayon.

great to hear your progress. i think it is a chizuk for everyone.