Hi all.
Im not looking for answers.
I just want to post some feelings here, because these are really bugging me and I feel comfortable telling the guys here.
I feel ungrateful. Its because im truly angry at Hashem. I really feel like he's this sort of cruel scientist who put us here to struggle. And hes so distant from me that Ive tried so long, and so hard to give so much to him, yet I feel so let down. I feel like at this point in my life, I NEED HIM yet i dont WANT HIM. I know theres so other belief or religion that will top Judaism. And i dont want to become an agnostic or atheist. But im tired of putting in so much effort to try connect to him, yet I feel im getting nothing back from him. And yes there is a voice in my head that tells me look at my family, friends, financially stable, good environment. But still I feel ignored, and I feel like hes made my life too difficult.
And its about time I deal with these feelings.
Thanks

Wish I would have answers.
Wish I would want Him.
[Is 'wishin' and 'hopin' the same?]
Wish I could connect to Him.
Wish I would feel close enough to actually pray to Him.
Wish I would really appreciate all that He does for me.
Wish I could really love Him.
Wish I would truly bond with Him.
Wish I would fear Him.

Actually felt good writin' these things, for it kinda gave me a push and an incentive to actually maybe do somethin' to attain these wishes and aspirations.

Thanks bro
We are here for you....with answers and without

b'hatzlachah

dear atzmosyosey,
i feel that way too sometimes and i'm sure others to too. recently i posted my experience with anger on "post by lavi". although i'm happy when the logic kicks in and i do feel loved by Hashem at certain times. and that's a reason to thank Hashem, for the ability to feel this
your friend lavi

I very recently found an old note that is written from a shiyur I heard, but I couldn't remember when. Anyways it blew me away because it was exactly what I needed a the moment. Here's the essence of the note:

A father doesn't just test his child to see what he's going to do. That's a very twisted thing for a father to do. So G-d, our Father and way beyond our own conception of good and love and kindness, of course (kal vachomer) that He doesn't "test" us for this purpose. So what's the test?

The test is only as far as we're concerned, to see through every situation and realize that G-d lives us. From The Almighty's perspective, everything is One and Perfect. But on the receiving end we see darkness...so we have to look through this darkness and use this realization to overcome every challenge.

(An analogy for this darkness is a huge genius who had to contract an "hide away" his vast knowledge, simplifying it so that he can explain it to the simple minded person in a way that he can understand. The vast knowldge which was "hidden" is like G-d's ultimate Greatness, which can't be revealed down here, so it has to be simplified, resulting in "everything else" coming out as dark).

Don't let the Yetzer hara convince you otherwise!! Dontt forget that after a fall he has more power, but don't let him get you down! You are te son of the One and Only, and He's waiting for you to heal and realize the close connection you hae with Him!!!

Atzmosyosef wrote:


You say you've tried so hard and there was nothing back. Tired of putting in so much effort. And I say, it shouldnt need so much effort and trying. If your trying for years on end and you dont feel it is helping, perhaps your barking up the wrong tree.

Maybe you have a problem that is in the way. Imagine a post partum woman who is severely depresses yet cries her eyes out to God to save her. It wont help, she needs medicine.

Perhaps you need to change the game. You dont say what you are trying. Are you trying to feel good with yourself and that is the drive to connect to God? Then maybe you need to start looking into your past and wondering if there is something internal that is withholding you. Are you trying to become holy, and fight the Yetzer Hora? God isnt going to change nature for you, no amount of Tefilla will help that if it isnt accompanied by the right techniques. And as Dov might tell you, the right techniques on how to become clean sometimes have nothing to do with Yiddishkeit.

Just my thoughts.

Atzmosyosef wrote:

I hear your resentment and frustration. For me that type of feeling came a lot from expectations. As someone once said to me: expectation is the pregnancy of disappointment. Meaning that you clearly have some picture of what you "expect" HaShem to be doing after you have put in so much effort, and for whatever reason He is not living up to your expectations.

You write that you have put in so much effort. I am sure you have. But i want to share with you something which i learnt from a bunch of Alcoholic goyim:

That connecting with HaShem requires no effort, no effort at all! It is very simple. he is there for me to talk to Him whenever i choose to connect to Him. But I have to ensure that I do not "tune-out" and disconnect by connecting with "other" powers.

It took time, it took meetings and talking to friends in SA. I doubt I could have got to the realization on my own, but when it sinks in it is very simple and natural.

There is a lot more to write, but I must finish.

May He give us sobriety, sanity and serenity.

dear atzmos,
there is a certain chazal that gives me chizuk, when i feel like you do. the name Keil Shakai, has a p'shat that there is enough in Elokus for each creation, which can be understood that there HAS to be a meaningful and furfilling way for each creation to connect to Hashem, it is up to us to find it, and since He can satisfy and need and want that i have (even if this is sh'lo lishmah), i think it is a great thing to be connected to him- in fact why would anyone possibly not want to be connected??

Atzmosyosef wrote:

I wanted to add to what I wrote earlier regarding the above.

There are a number of problems addicts (and others) have, which causes us to focus only on the negative and not the positive.

One of them is simply that we take for granted what we do have. And that is even if we ARE aware that we are fortunate. We still do not connect.

In SA I learnt to appreciate and express gratitude to HaShem. And that means appreciating EVERYTHING, not just in general terms as you wrote above.

I have had times when everything looked so bad that I could not see anything good, let alone appreciate, or express gratitude. My sponsor would tell me to write a gratitude list. i would write one thing, even the smallest thing and another would come, and very soon I would have a whole bunch of things which earlier I had would not even have been able to remember if I tried. But it was the action that changed me mindset and helped me get out of my self-centeredness.

Why is it so important in recovery to focus on gratitude? (Besides for the obvious reasons)

Firstly, it puts things into perspective. As I wrote earlier, I have had times when everything seemed really "shvartz" and then after writing a gratitude list, I realized how much I should be thankful for, or at least that things could be a lot worse.

But for me there is a much more important realization, and although I try very hard not to mix Torah concepts with recovery (not because they don't go together but because for me it is addictive thinking) I will use an idea I heard at a Seudas Hodoya of a friend of mine who had recovered from cancer.

When Yosef was sold into slavery we are told that the merchants who bought him were carrying an unusual cargo. Their normal line of business was paraffin or petrol, but this time "incidentally" they were carrying fragrances. The reason given for this is in order that Yosef would not suffer from the bad smell of the paraffin.

One can only imagine that for someone who had just been sold into slavery and on his way to Egypt, the last thing that would have bothered him would have been the smell en route! So why was this minute detail so important?

The answer is that HaShem was sending a message: However bad you think it is, I am still with you and care for you.

Yosef could have chosen to ignore that message, to focus on the incredible wrongdoing that was happening to him. He could have sweated with resentment for the entire journey and thereafter, but then he may not have withstood the test of Potiphar's wife!

And that (my dear AtzmosYosef! ! couldn"t resist that) is the message that an addict needs to hear. That HaShem loves us and cares for us, despite the fact that our addiction tells us otherwise.

May He grant us sobriety, sanity and serenity.

Beautiful words chesky!!! you inspired me as I too from time to time feel that loneliness in me that life's struggles are just to difficult for me. Do I realy deserve this!!! I try hard!! am I so terrible!! why do I deserve this!! and sometimes we can feel so overwhelmed with these feeling and some what be upset with god... and even when we do get past this yet another struggle will come..
your words are true our sickness causes us to focus on what more pleasure we can consume from let it be masturbation or porn or just staring and fantasizing about ladies we see on the street...... our addictions causes us to focus on getting more and more. consume more and more pleasure from all this. The end result as I experienced it is that its never enough.. I'm never satisfied with just 1 or 2 looks
we need more and more. "I'll just look at this... and some how before I know it im starring at the screen for 15 min. and that's not enough oh ill just mast.a little.... and you know the end result.. so the key here of course is to stop the actual behaviors but the real work is to work the steps and as you said so beautifully which I find works good for me is the gratitude journal,its not enough to think in your head Yu gotta write it down. it helps wonders and I realized many times those feeling of loneliness actually disintegrate. the journal actually starts to train our minds to focus on what we have and not so much on what we want or wish and which ultimately brings to thoughts of what we don't have.. and why and then we feel we have good reason to be upset and down and even angry at hashem. so thanks for reminding me of this great tool I will have to start writing that journal again. but you know what it is when you start feeling better you forget that you still gotta continue the journal that's what did it got me out of those thoughts

I know atzmos yosef you were just writing feelings but you should know your not alone I have those feeling at times and others do too, although I always thought I have those feelings more than others now im comforted that you do too and this is one of the greatest things gye has done... to comfort us all were not alone!!! this is our greatest strength we have as a nation imo anochi bitzaro that is the greatest chizzuk. so try the grateful journal.......

I am grateful to be a part of GYE.
I am grateful to have seen atzmos yosef and cheskys post
I am grateful to have found a parking spot today right when I needed it.
I am grateful......

I am grateful for recovery
I am grateful for sobriety
I am grateful for the tools to deal with my powerlessness
I am grateful for GYE
I am grateful for SA
I am grateful for wonderful friends I met in recovery

chesky wrote:

you left out banana liquer

OMG How could i have left that out!!

But then I have to write that one of the things I am most grateful for, is a very special person who did not give up on me . . . . .

And BTW don't you dare use moderator powers to edit that!

Im grateful for this forum !
THanks everyone who took time to post to me. It means a great deal for me to see that other guys take time to encourage me and others.
Ayintov - Its a chizuk for me to know that im not the only one who has these feelings.

Thanks

I'm grateful that I was able to eat a Tuna Bagel from the bagel shop today for lunch...
I love a good bagel with tuna,lettuce and pickles!!! YUM. Do you?

there I go I feel that loneliness comin I learned more than regular today but I don't feel happy with myself I know the depressive and lonely feeling are coming... im tired. as usually happens when these thought start coming

let me just tell myself its ok just like these thoughts are coming into my mind let them just continue and fly out. I don't need to act out because of it. and I don't need to fight it. let it just fly by. acknowledge it and know that I'm still ok

I'm grateful you started this so I can write my thoughts....

HI! whats up atzmos yosef? anything new to post.

how was your taynus

I'm grateful the taynus went pretty well.

I was actually at the bagel store again this time theres was a long line... it was difficult keeping my eyes off the wrong people but then I told my self focus on why your here for bagels.... the woman on line aren't mine.... then I figured ill just play with my phone that's a good distraction... so I did and guess what, it worked pretty well, before I knew it, it was my turn and I was out...

I'm grateful for these techniques I've learned from the chevra on gye and the one and only dov.

atzmos are you still there????