Working on this issue and the 12 steps, with the forum, conferences, meeting people etc has transformed me from a person who watched porn and masturbated at least once daily to someone who finds it relatively easy to stay clean for about 16 days. Then the urges start growing stronger and stronger until I end up falling. The falls happen very fast and I can't always point to any particular trigger or cause. It just seems to be a hump I can't get over.

I feel like I've stagnated in this avodah. How should I avoid these falls?

The falls happen fast, but you just said how the urge grows stronger and stronger. There is the point of your problem. You have to get to the root not of the fall, but to the root of the stronger and stronger urges. It seems like there is some underlying cause that doesn't seem to go away, and it builds up pressure until you fall.

I know for me it was dissatisfaction and depression.

Does resonate with you at all?

MBJ wrote:


...and for me it was "lusting"...

MT

Machshovo Tova wrote:


Well the lusting was a symptom and a drug to ease the dissatisfaction and depression

But in my case there was no dissatisfaction nor depression. Just lusting because it felt too good to give up. But once I learned that I need to avoid all forms of lust, and to replace it with healthy living, my life became manageable. B"H slips and falls are no longer part of my regular life.

(Not every case follows the same handbook.)

MT

I personally found it to be both. Sometimes negative emotions were the trigger for me to act out. sometimes physical triggers caused me to act out. Both would lead to a cycle of acting out.

gibbor120 wrote:


הצד השוה שבהם - each individual needs to analyze what his triggers are, and develop a strategy that will help him stay a safe distance from those triggers.

IMHO, many people around here seem to stress the negative emotions part, and they seriously commit themselves to improve in that area, but they do not concentrate enough on avoiding physical triggers (like watching movies, TV, general shmiras einayim/machshovo.), and then they come back and wonder out loud why they fell.

Forgive me for quoting a possuk to drive my point home:
היחתה איש אש בחיקו ובגדיו לא תשרפנה
Can a man rake fire in his bossom and his clothes will not get burnt?

Hatzlacha

MT

There are time when I fall without there being any triggers, any warnings, any negative emotion. It just happens. Like having an itch and my hand goes to scratch it without any thought at all.

Doc..my heart goes out for you, and my tefillos...whatever they are worth.

I know we spoke about this, but can you identify anything that is happening before that "itch," anything whatsoever? Is there any commonality with these times?

It could be key....

I also do not know enough, or anything at all, to be giving advice on this, but perhaps ask the elders here: if your count sputters at 16 or so, maybe you should stop countin'.

I don't know; just wonderin'

b'hatzlachah

Dr.Watson wrote:


Guess what! I have had the same problem with itches that turned into slips and falls. I consider that a trigger, since it leads to the same unwanted outcome. After much analysis, I made a 'geder' that I do not scratch any itch from the waist to the knees. Sometimes the itch can really drive a person crazy, but for me that is a price I'm willing to pay for my sobriety.

Hatzlacha in your own ways,

MY

hi i agree with all of the above after being into this for years almost anything can trigger bad mood, bored, and so on but as we work on this the main thing is to keep away from improper stuff because those are really the root of all. the rest come from a addiction we were in that means almost anything got us started

Machshovo Tova wrote:
Agreed.

Machshovo Tova wrote:
I think the reason we stress the negative emotions part is that:
1) it is less obvious and often overlooked
2) Often true for those of us who are really messed up (to use a sceintific term ). I think it may be one of the defining differences between and addict and a non-addict.

True again about the physical triggers.

Machshovo Tova wrote:
Sounds like a yiddish folk saying. I like it! I'll have to try and use it sometime

Machshovo Tova wrote:


I was just offering an idea that worked for me and maybe it would be helpful. If not then not. For me it is just the opposite. I can see a triggering sight and shake it off much easier than if I let a triggering emotion or fantasy in. That is so much more dangerous for me. In fact for me (and I can only speak for me) all of my falls this past year had nothing to do with triggering sights, only triggering emotions.

Hatzlacha to all of us, each in our own derech. And thank you MT for reminding me that I can't use broad brush strokes when trying to help.

Eli

Nice stuff.

cordnoy wrote:
Yes it is!

What about a "How do I Tick" - triggers/emotion test.
Wouldnt it be helpful if we had such a test with solutions on this website for all of us?
I'm sure there's some online - I haven't done my research

Since apparently לפי הנזכר לעיל, alot of lusting / addiction is caused by mixed up emotions
If we can get to the root of our lust, this may be a must

This would be major - big time
Cos the.guard many many years ago suggested that this website may be beneficial to relieve more addictions than lust alone

Take for example smoking
An issue I have with a smoker isn't the damage he's causing to his lungs
Rather I want to ask him "why are you depressed that you need that?"

Just another idea of mine, take it or leave it