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He fell; now how do we get him out?
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TOPIC: He fell; now how do we get him out? 944 Views

He fell; now how do we get him out? 30 Jul 2013 18:27 #214120

  • cordnoy
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Several weeks ago, a fellow on site pm'ed me and gave me his story.
Sheltered life, family stability issues growing up, now married with children, financial issues and of course, cant stop being mz"l...chat lines, internet stuff, etc., and it is effecting his work big time.

he had told his dayan in the past, but he was not on top of him. He does not want him or his wife to find out about his struggles.

I agreed and was excited to become his monitor. I have complete access to his computer. If he would fall, I would email his dayan. This arrangement worked very weel for three weeks. The fellow was a different person. Connected to God (probably more than me), business was improving, etc.

His wife went away for a couple of weeks. I warned him beforehand to set something up. Yesterday was first day away. Boom! He fell. Thru the phone.

He is feeling terrible and in the dumps. I need advice please.

I did tell him to start fresh; don't focus on the past. Today is day 1, and so is tomorrow. I saw in the beginning he was too focused on the 90 days. That is probably killing him now. I told him we need to get a block on the phones for certain numbers. does anyone have good system? Any advice that you can tell me to tell him would be appreciated. If you have something in Yiddish, it would be even better. Thanks so much.

Tizku lmitzvois
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
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Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 30 Jul 2013 20:39 #214148

  • skeptical
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We need to realize that although we can offer our experiences and help to others, it is ultimately up to them how they will act. We can't control others, we can only control ourselves.

We also need to realize that though we may have tools like filters, accountability partners, etc., they are just that - tools. They will not assure us that we won't fall. If we want to get around the filters, we can. If we want to ignore our partners, we can. There are no quick fixes. What do we really want?

Hatzlacha!
Last Edit: 30 Jul 2013 20:40 by skeptical.

Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 30 Jul 2013 23:51 #214208

  • cordnoy
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well....I called him up
told him that I have taynos more on myself than him
he...mimeila had a tezer hara...I don't have his y"h (for his actions; I have it for my own); I knew this would be a problem 10 days ago. I told him that we need to set up a preventive plan. I blew it!

So we made up for tonight that if he should get a tayva (with us, dats like sayin', "if we are breathing"), he will immediately email me. I will attempt to help him then. if he will succumb to the atzas hayetzer, he will update me and I will then inform his dayan.

I hope it doesn't come to that; is there a way to block 800 numbers from your own phone. he has page plus, a service of Verizon.

thank you and may God be with all of us
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 31 Jul 2013 04:39 #214256

  • inastruggle
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For what it's worth, I think you handled that well.

Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 31 Jul 2013 04:43 #214257

  • cordnoy
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Your words of chizuk are worth a lot to me
Advice is even better
Constructive criticism....the best
I'm fallin asleep....ill daven first that his phone should break, or somethin
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 31 Jul 2013 09:46 #214291

  • Dov
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Good L-rd, stop pretending you are G-d, man. You can't save him at all. Trying to 'talk him out of it' is playing G-d and I believe will ruin your sanity and serenity, will creep into your marriage and subtly wreak havoc with that - and this guy (anybody) is not worth that!

You've done enough, please consider giving him the reins, stop worrying abt him, put him in G-d's hands....oh, wait a minute:

...do you put yourself in G-d's hands? Or is this a 'saving each other' kind of thing to you?

If you do see it as people having the power to save you - or yourself having the power to save yourself, for that matter - and it is working fine for you - then let me not interrupt you from success! I am serious.

But if it is not, then i warn you - falling to the lie that you have the power and if only you tried harder, he'd be OK and that poor sperm would not be on the floor...well, that's gonna bite you in the behind and ruin you. Then you won't be 'saving' anybody, will you?

Was that criticism? I don't think so.
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."

Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 31 Jul 2013 19:07 #214311

  • cordnoy
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no; it was fine

I assume you mean that a guy must decide for himself and take responsibility for his actions. that would be the ultimate; but what happens if a guy can't? shouldn't he be helped a bit? are we doing harm by holding his hand somewhat thru the process? maybe the answer is yes, for ultimately he will not learn any positive skills. but perhaps he will learn some.

you certainly gave me something to think about

and regarding God, I don't really know who He is; Im certainly not pretending to be Him. Step 1 is surrendering to the higher power; this fellow is saying he cannot do that himself. I do not believe that the filter, monitor, wife, etc. becomes that higher power; it is just a tool to be used on the way.

maybe im completely off base....

thanks
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.
Last Edit: 31 Jul 2013 19:09 by cordnoy.

Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 31 Jul 2013 22:52 #214356

  • Dov
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I guess what I am trying to say is that taking real actions means that this is real. If he doesn't take actions that are really real, then both of u r wasting your time. Hiding behind a fake name is fine for some - but for most, I believe it is a waste of time. It's just not real enough. For many, even talking on the phone and using your real names is not enough. Most people (who are really ill) need to meet face to face, use their real names, admit the truth clearly and explicitly about what's really going on with them, and need to do so frequently.

So I'd focus less on whether he is keeping his zipper up or not, and do what you can to help him get real and stay real. In the end, that's what works, not 'chizzuk'. It's quality, not quantity.

Thanks for sharing your experience with this fellow, with us!!
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."

Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 31 Jul 2013 23:28 #214362

  • cordnoy
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thanks
i guess my main goal with him is to get him back to his dayan
he told him once; he should continue to do so
he might need to be compelled to get there though
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 01 Aug 2013 18:40 #214500

  • cordnoy
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the last day and a half, he has been textin and emailin me that hes keepin clean
callin kol mevaser instead of chat lines (is that an improvement?)
I will keep tryin with him; holdin his hand somewhat until he sees the light himself, seizes it, takes a hold of his life by himself, etc.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 01 Aug 2013 19:18 #214524

  • gibbor120
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short-term, yeah, get the buckets and bail water, but long-term, repair the hole.

Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 01 Aug 2013 22:34 #214563

  • Dov
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Cordnoy, do you regularly share your own weaknesses with him? Have you told him your own story? Or do you think you need to boslter him up with success stories and avoid opening up about your own frailties so as to 'keep him trusting in this'?

Just curious.
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."

Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 02 Aug 2013 00:15 #214625

  • cordnoy
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I have actually tried telling him several times my story

I was curious myself that he didn't really wanna hear

I told him that people here fall and then get up as well, and I told him that people here have been clean for a while
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 02 Aug 2013 18:34 #214777

  • Dov
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Sounds to me like u did your duty!
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."

Re: He fell; now how do we get him out? 02 Aug 2013 18:35 #214778

  • gibbor120
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hey cordnoy, I like your tank. Where is it aimed?
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