Outch!

JOHN'S WIFE IS AS IMPORTANT AS THE MILK CRATE IN FRONT OF BOCHNERS

WAS IT GOLEN FLOW OR J&J?

AHA YOU DONT REMEMBER !!!

GOOD, JOHN'S WIFE IS JUST AS IMPORTANT

YOU SHOULD NOT REMEMBER ANYTHING ABOUT HER

SHE IS NOT IMPORTANT (to you!!!)

guardureyes wrote on 01 Oct 2009 19:46:


Rabeinu, there is no such thing as relations with a proper attitude?
???
k

kutan shel hachabura wrote on 02 Oct 2009 17:15:


I don't think that's what R. Guard meant.  My understanding of what he said is that the physical side of it is the same regardless of whether or not it's with another person.  But, if it's done to connect with one's spouse emotionally and spiritually, then that's a completely different story.

kutan shel hachabura wrote on 02 Oct 2009 17:15:


Kutan - absolutely. That's the punchline - if your interested in her. Interested in expressing the love you already have for her. Interesting in making her happy - and your pleasure is a byproduct, not the purpose (which ironically, they say makes every much better).

But when we fantasize about someone purely for their body - our fantasy has zero to do with love - or having relations purely based on physicallity - has zero to do with love - so why would we care about the other person? We care about us, not them. We don't even want them. We want the experience - Tanach teaches us after Amnon raped Tamar - his ultimate, obessed until illness and death fantasy - and she begged him beforehand to at least marry her - after he was done - he hated her with a terrible hate - because he never cared about her. And afterward she just became the symbol of his total lack of self-control, and he threw her out.

we should remeber at least that we should never ever throw ourselves out sometimes we abuse ourselves and others together!

Indeed, we should always welcome ourselves with open arms. We all need self respect and self love to get out of this and stay clean. And of course we need to remember that Hashem loves us more than anyone else. The deeper sources says that all the love that exists in the world, be it a mothers love or the true love of a husband and wife, is so we can understand how much Hashem loves us.

holy yid,
you are so holy!!!
the proof in the pudding \is that at almost precisely the same moment that you wrote these beautiful words...
I was writing the same exact thing in my thread!!

Oy what a hug!
How much Hashem truly loves us!!!!!!!
I want to just get up and dance

Please dance, it is Yom Tov.

I just posted in adifferent thread should have been this one about my fantasizing about JOhn's wife in the succah during a kuzits with my talmidim etc couldnt have been worse my addict is telling me to get som fantasy hugs from etc...
and my neshoma get some from Hashem:_
So yeah

just started a similar thread.
http://rehab-my-site.com/guardureyes/forum/index.php?topic=1083.0

Just to continue on the point about whether it is the woman or the rush that we crave, I would like to share an experience I had whilst staying on a secular Kibbutz some years ago. There was a Russian immigrant who I shared a room with who was always bragging about how he lost his virginity to some famous Russian prostitute. One night after a couple of bottles of Vodka he admitted that in fact it never happened because as she was getting ready, she looked in the mirror and complained about the fact that she was suffering from dandruff. He said that after that he just couldn’t go through with it because she was suddenly a real person and before that she had been a vehicle for his desires – a blank canvas for his lust. As soon as he was able to see her as a real person, it became incompatible with his desire.

on John's wife...i, too, am in love with everybodys girl...there seems to be this new attraction that attaches when you know the subject is attached....girl A is single, there is no lust there, the second shes attached its whoa, hello...ultimately, its part of why we lust...we lust becuase we want the forbidden fruit...we want what we cant have....we need to see it as lust and no more...and lust can be controlled...there are ways to become a less lustful person...but why do we want what we cant have??

kanesher wrote on 01 Oct 2009 13:33:


Yeah, in moments of great desparation, I wonder myself:  Isn't fake pleasure a better alternative than none?  And, in those moments, this is a very hard question to answer.

Eye.nonymous wrote on 07 Oct 2009 16:15:


Fake pleasure is indeed better than none, if that is the only factor in consideration. During a nisayon, all this talk will not help. Techniques outlined by Guard in the handbook are the way to go.             
but if we are talking things out beforehand, we CAN dealwith this question head on. And the answer is that we are ignoring part of the equation.
It really has to do with the whole nisyayon of our generation. R' Tatz has a fundemental talk, from HIS rebbe, that each generation has ITS nisyayom, that other generations will look back and scratch their head and wonder what WERE they thinking.  Like socialism of 70 years ago.  that is what the gemara means whe it says that every 70 years a star comes out of no where and confuses the sailers. some see this as Haley's comeet, and perhaps that is the pashut pshat, but the amkus is this, that every generation there is one nsayon that makes no sense to anyone but that generation. Being happy with fake things is ours. fake furniture. etc etc. who cares if it is REAL, as long as it makes me happy. But it only FAKELY makes the person happy!
THere is a lot more to say, but my computer time is limited on chol Hamoed. IYH another time.