Some of the Chevra have mentioned that, following falls, c"v, they are unable to Daven.  This is very unfortunate, for a number of reasons.  First, at the time of a fall, we need the Ribbono Shel Olam's assistance more than ever.  Second, even the Ramban (who normally holds that Tefillah is Mid'Rabbanan) holds that, during an Eis Tzarah, there is a Mitzvah d'Oraysah to Daven.  What can be a bigger Eis Tzarah than falling?  Third, it makes no sense to delay Teshuva - this goes against the important principle of "Shuv Yom Echad Lifnei Misascha."  Fourth, why is it that every Shemona Esrei has two Berachos relating to Teshuva?  Is it not because we may have sinned since the last time we Davened?  Fifth, if it feels like sheer Gehinnom to Daven after a fall, that itself can serve as a huge deterrent against falling in the future.

i too find it very hard to daven when youve been bad...how can you tell gd all those things about thanking him for this and youre so great that when you just, by your actions, told him to go fly a kite? i feel like gd is looking down on me with one hand on his hip going, "mm, hmm, harisha mehera te'aker, huh? that means YOU, buddy...al hatzidikim, ve'aleinu? you think youre with the tzadikim? HAHAHAHAHA!!! YOU IDIOT!!!" and so on...quite honestly i feel ashamed and a hypocrite..."kabetzenu yaCHad me'araBa kanfOt ha'aretz?" im doing my best to make that a real hard job...

so, my vote: NOT to daven...

Holy Kadosh,
All true every word you wrote. Having said that,  my own experience has been that it took me literally months to regain the ability to connect with Hashem thru tefilah, and I'm still not sure that I'm where I was and its been over 5 months.
Chazal say that "in the time of YH no one remembers the Yatzer Tov" the hester punim and the darkness that comes after acting out for me, was and is absolutely frightening. Almost as if I went into "cardiac arrest" in a spiritual sense. My whole spiritual self shut down!
My point being, that everything you wrote is true 100 percent but if you would of told all this to me 5 months ago right after I acted out it wouldn't have had any effect on me!
Like you said its "unfortunate" that when we need Him most, we can't reach out to Him ;(

Love
Noorah

Rage AT Machine wrote on 14 Sep 2009 20:03:


It's uncomfortable to do many things after having fallen: Relating to our wife and children, attending a family Simcha, saying "Good Shabbos" to our Rav, having a performance review with our boss, attending a job interview, and so on.  The point is that falling adversely affects every area of life, most of which we are unable to avoid ("listen boss, can we postpone that performance review?  You won't believe where I went on the Internet last night!").  We need to channel our aversion to the after-effects of falling, to help prevent us from falling again.  Not facing life after a fall, which includes Davening three times a day, is a cop-out.  Of course, no one says it's easy, as Noorah pointed out, and the quality of our Tefillah will undoubtedly be affected.  But that can improve quickly, as we improve ourselves, one day at a time.

Again, I reiterate: The Shemona Esrei was written for everyone, including those who recently fell.  That's what the Beracha of "Selach Lano" is for.  And if we don't feel capable of Teshuva, we ask Hashem to assist us "Hashiveinu Avinu l'Sorasecha . . ."

i also find it so hard to daven when i feel like i betrayed Hashem. like i let him down and now i just CAN'T face him. the embarrassment is too much. i know it's not right but i skipped davening last time i fell.
i'm thinking though about what i read in "you can learn trust in G-d". it was saying that we ask hashem for things not because we deserve it but because Hashem's midda is chessed. He wants to give us good regardless of what we have done.

it's hard to internalize, though.....

in those times,you can daven to Hashem in your own words

there was one time where I felt I messed up and was so appalled by my falls that I could not open my mouth and even say one word.

I wanted to hide under the table.or will myself out of existence

So I went to my room,locked the door,and forced myself to talk to Hashem.

and with a little time the words start flowing.

He knows how terrible you feel inside

He wants you to talk to Him about it

You feel like a phony hypocrite

Talk about that too.

about how you really do not want to be this way anymore.

It feels like heavy lead is in your heart

Talk to Him anyway

mom told me that i should talk to Hashem in "the mama loshon"- my mother tongue. in good times and in bad if that's how i express myself best. (that doesn't mean i shouldn't daven, obviously. she meant in addition)

it says that you should not say shema without teffilin because you will be testifying against yourself...i feel like praying shemona esrei when youve been so rotten is also testifying against yourself...selach lanu? where is the azivat hachet: stage one of teshuvah? there maybe something there in hashivenu but what about the other 18? besides, i DONT think that the anshey kenesset hagedolah ever imagined how rotten i have become...they DID NOT write this with me in mind...they had holy jews in mind...i guess the debate is academic..we must pray, so we do...it just dont feel right...

Rage AT Machine wrote on 14 Sep 2009 20:46:


I certainly agree that it's very difficult.

To comment on this is a little above me...
I personally think it's best to keep on moving forward and follow routine as much as possible.
the korban tamid..., it holds us in place...
structure is huge, even though i dont always succeed at it,
what's the pasuk of temidim k'musafim?
the idea that my temidim should be as special and meaningful as the more rare events...
well, that cant happen if my temidim arent in place
i think no matter how empty, the first step is to make that structure...

Rage AT Machine wrote on 14 Sep 2009 20:03:


I'm not sure who specifically says this idea, but I think it's pretty universal...
first of all, harisha mehera te'aker was not instituted for seriously committed Jews who were struggling,
mamash for the minim it was, and flake or no flake, RATM, i dunno if you fit the bill...
also, harisha doesnt have to be the ppl, it is the evil we want to rid ourselves of,
whats the pasuk brought in brachos about chotim,
and we understand it as hachataim, not hachotim...
you are not bad, youre actions may be not the best, but you are a keeper!

humbly yours,

Sturggle

sturggle wrote on 14 Sep 2009 21:29:


"Yitamu Chata'im Min Ha'aretz."

HERE IS THE ANSWER YOUVE BEEN WAITING FOR

UNSOPHISTICATED

HELLO

HASHEM DOES "NOT" NEED OUR TEFFILLOS

HIS GLORY IS

IT IS EVEN WITHOUT OUR TEFILLOS

WE "NEED" HIN SOOOOOOO BADLY

OF COURSE ITS HARD TO DAVEN IN BLOOD STAINED GARMENTS OR WORSE

BUT WE NEED TO


IF A YID GETS UP TO DAVEN ANE HE OR SHE FEELS UNWORTHY TO DAVEN THEN THAT ITSELF IS YES "IS" KAPPARAS AVONOS

CHASSIDISHE SFORIM BRING DOWN THAT IF A PERSON DID AN AVEIRA AND THEN HE DAVENS AND HE THINKS SHAMAYIM DOES NOT WANT  HIS TEFILLA HE HAS NOT STEPPED OVER THE DOOR OF CHASSIDUS (THEY SAY IT MUCH MORE BLUNT BUT IT IS NOT FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T TASTED THE WATERS OF CHASSIDUS.SORRY)

TEFILLA IS EVERYTHING EVERYTHING WHEN WE SIN IS WHEN WE NEED NEED NEED HASHEM THE MOST

YES YOU SAY IM SORRY YES YOU APOPLOGIZE

BUT TEFILLLLA GEVALDDDDDDDDDDDDD

IT IS THE GREATEST ATZAS HAYETZER THAT TELLS YOU OOOPS NOW IS NOT A GOOD TIME


OK BOMB SHELL!!!!!

ROSH HASSHAAN HAS NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING  TO DO WIYTH THE PAST

IT IS A NEW PAGE A NEW LEAF

IT IS HASHEMS YEARLY CORONATION

HASHEM WANTS TO SEE YOU

HOW-YOU- ACT- ON THE DAY OF HIS CORONATION


ZEH HUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I HAVE ALOT MORE TO SAY

b

Bardichev got it right. Do not EVER let the Yetzer Hara make you sad or dejected if you stumble. This sadness can be worse than the sin itself. The Yetzer Hara is hoping to get you depressed and take you away from Hashem and from yourself. We must always serve Hashem be'simcha. This is one of the most fundamental Yesodos to ultimate success.

The Lechevitcher Rebbe (a student of R'Shlomo of Karlin) once went as far as to say that even if a person just killed someone and the knife is still dripping with blood, but he feels can't stand up and pray Mincha (the afternoon service) with all his strength and with all his heart, then he has not yet tasted from the waters of Chassidus!

NO MATTER WHAT WE HAVE DONE WRONG, HASHEM WANTS TO HEAR FROM US. (For those who disagree, I think the problem is more that WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR FROM HIM).

Sorry, guys. There are no two ways about it.

Snow-FLAKE.
Guard

I KNEW THE GUARD WILL SAY IT MORE BLUNT(THERE IS ANOTHER ANGLE OF BLUNTNESS TO THIS)

HELLO THE MOST BEAUTIFUL KAPPITTAL OF TEHILLIM

PEREK 51

YOU ALL KNOW THE SONG "LEV TAHOR BI-RAH LEE ELOKIM"

IT WAS ALL SAID

KA-ASHER BAAH ALL BAS-SHEV

IT WAS SECOND AFTER THE SIN

SECOND LATER

LOOK AT THE WORDS  CHANENI ELOKIM

HASTER PANECHA ME-CHTA-I

AL TASHILICHEINI MILFANECHA

HERE IS THE BEST ONE

HASHEM SIFASEI TIFTACH

CMON THIS IS BASIC BASIC BASIC
EMINAH

I KNOW MORAH STRICTASARULER WASN'T COMFORTABLE TO TEACH IT

BUT.. MY REBBE TAUGHT IT TO ME!!!!

b

Ahhhhh! so worth the wait!
thanks!